5. WILL GUIDARA: The Magic of Excellence & Hospitality

Episode Transcript

Note: Transcript is AI-generated and may contain errors. Please refer to the episode audio or video for exact quotes.

Will Guidara: Everyone listening to this right now is relentlessly passionate in pursuit of something I’m just here to say that you should just.

be as relentlessly passionate in your pursuit of relationships too. 

Michael Hyatt: I’m Michael Hyatt. 

Megan Hyatt-Miller: And I’m Megan Hyatt Miller. 

Michael Hyatt: And this is the Double Win, A show about winning at work and succeeding at life.

Megan Hyatt-Miller: And you know, here at our company Full Focus, we have identified nine life domains that you can cultivate to help you be the person that you wanna be and live the life you wanna live. Those are body, mind, spirit, love, family, community, money, work, and hobbies. 

Michael Hyatt: so Today’s guest is Will Guera. He’s the former co-owner of 11 Madison Park, which was one of the top restaurants in New York City when he was running it, which received four stars from the New York Times, three Michelin Stars. Was named number one on the World’s 50 best restaurants list.

In 2017, he co-founded another successful New York restaurant Nomad. He’s a co-author of four cookbooks and one of the best books on customer service ever, which is called Unreasonable Hospitality. And get this subtitle, the Remarkable Power of Giving People More Than They Expect New York Times Bestseller for multiple months in a row.

Great book. And. Hospitality is one of those things that, whether you know it or not, it applies to every area of your life. How you show up for your family, how you show up at work, how you treat your customers, and clients and friends and children. Everything in between. So without further ado, here’s Will Guera.

Will, welcome to the show.

Will Guidara: thank you so much. 

Megan Hyatt-Miller: We are so excited to have this conversation because we love this book. We love 

this book. I mean, unreasonable 

Hospitality. We love it. We love it. 

I, I 

Michael Hyatt: read this book last year. And then I got obnoxiously pushy with everybody I know, and I just said, you’ve got to read this book.

All my private coaching clients, I told ’em, you gotta read this book because this applies to everything I. 

It really does. And you were obnoxious. I’m just gonna confirm that because you kept, he kept asking me, have you read this book? Have you read this book? Did you get it yet? Have you read it? Have you downloaded it?

I’m like, okay, I’ll read this book. 

Megan Hyatt-Miller: I 

Michael Hyatt: didn’t know anything about it except that you know, you were really excited and usually your recommendations are really good. And I was so excited when you got into the book that it had to do with food. so like I totally missed that part on the, on 

Megan Hyatt-Miller: the 

Michael Hyatt: beginning.

Uh, because I love great restaurants. We are huge fans of food and hospitality. Our absolute favorite place to go on the planet is Blackberry Farm 

Megan Hyatt-Miller: in East 

Michael Hyatt: Tennessee. I don’t know if you’ve been there, will, but if you haven’t, 

you

must 

go. 

Will Guidara: No, I’ve been I’ve been to Blackberry a few different times. I was actually at Blackberry Mountain 10 days ago.

Megan Hyatt-Miller: Oh, well, we just love it. And so anyway, I think, um, it helped me understand why I love it so much and it inspired me give that same gift in our context to our audience, our community of people, you know, Hmm. elevated what I thought was possible. So I’m selfishly thrilled to have 

this

conversation 

Will Guidara: Well, I am, I’m so excited to be with you guys and, and can’t wait to get into it.

Michael Hyatt: I wanna talk about the restaurant business because you know, one of the things that we try to stand against is kind of this burnout culture. This hustle culture that we have where people are working, unbeliev, unbelievable hours, and to the extent that they’re offering, often sacrificing their best life.

Uh, for the sake of, you know, just doing all business all the time and so they have no margin for anything else. But I’d just love for you to talk about what it’s like to be in the restaurant business. ’cause you know, we’ve given all this in your bio, but you know, you’re a world renowned restaurateur so just talk about that 

for a minute. 

Will Guidara: I mean, it’s interesting, you know, one of the things that I hear people say all the time, those in and out of the restaurant business is it’s so hard. It’s so hard. It’s so hard. And gosh, I hate that. I hate that. Because for those inside the restaurant business, if you continually say something is hard, then maybe.

Do something else, um, sincerely, like what’s the point? If you don’t like it, don’t do it. Um, I think the restaurant business is, I mean, it’s the only thing I’ve ever done in my life up until the point that I wrote this book and started to do all the things I’m doing now, but. You see all these TV shows or movies where the restaurant is such a sole focus in the chef or restaurateur’s life that they either suffer depression or imbalance.

I, I think the restaurant business is like any business. The the culture you build is the culture you decide to build and any. Business has seasons where you do need to work all the time, right? No one get becomes ultra successful without knowing when you just need to put your head down and give all of yourself in pursuit of some finite goal along the way.

But I think the restaurant business can have just as much balance as any business if you set things up in the right way. And if like anything you decide that balance is a non-negotiable,

Michael Hyatt: Was there ever a point in your history where you were out of balance and then suddenly you, you had a realization and said, something’s gotta change in my life and in the way 

I’m running my business? 

Will Guidara: Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, at just 11 Madison Park, I’ll, I’ll stick with that time horizon. I got there in 2006. I sold the business in 2019. Um, and it was a big. Big lift. What we did there, we took a two star brossa ring and turned it into the number one restaurant in the world. There were a few pretty intense pushes there along the way, and I think when you become so obsessed with those finite goals along the way, you can lose yourself in pursuit of them.

And I remember one season, gosh, I, I definitely lost myself in it, and I write about this in the book. There was this moment where one of our cooks. Like ran into the kitchen in the middle of dinner service. She worked the lunch shift and she ran into the kitchen in the middle of dinner service thinking that she was late to her shift the next day.

And it was just one of those 

like, like, 

oh shoot moments where it just became clear that we had our foot all the way down to the gas for so long that the train was starting to come off the the tracks. And, I think when you’re a leader, sometimes you need to not think about your own bandwidth and your own capacity and your own, uh, burnout point, because different people are built differently.

I can push really, really hard for a really long time, but if I just expect that everyone else can. Do what I can do. I’m gonna leave the team behind, and the entire role of a leader is to, at every possible opportunity, bring everyone along with you on that ride.

Megan Hyatt-Miller: You know, when I read this book, I think the thing that’s, that stuck out to me more than any other was the beautiful, um, obsession. 

Excellence. Hmm. what I, what I love about it was it wasn’t a narcissistic obsession with excellence. It felt like a very other centered, uh, humanizing, honoring way of seeing the people that you serve in, in your case, literally, and, that pursuit of excellence.

Quality and care of people. How do you balance the tension between that and doing that at such a high level and also creating a culture and an environment for the people who you, as the business owner or the leader are serving who work for you so that they, they have a similarly excellent experience providing that experience to others, if that makes sense.

Like how do you balance those two things?

Will Guidara: So it’s interesting how I would actually articulate what you just said is that. You were inspired by our pursuit of hospitality. And, and I, and I say that with intention because I talk often about how excellence in hospitality are conflicting goals. They actually don’t, they’re not friends with one another.

It’s easy to, to run an excellent organization, it’s easy to run a hospitable organization. That’s much harder to do the the two at the same time. Um. You can run an excellent organization if you scare the the crap outta the people that work for you, such that they’re gonna get in so much trouble if they ever make a mistake and they’re gonna be less likely to make mistakes.

But if they’re living in a constant state of fear, they’re never gonna be able to bring their most fully realized selves to the table. Similarly, you can create an amazingly hospitable organization if you’re just. You know, high fiving your team and giving them back rubs, but never holding ’em accountable to any standard of e of Excellence.

And it’s gonna be a really friendly organization, but you know, you’re gonna go into that restaurant, you’re never gonna get a plate of food served to you. Um, pursuing them both at the same time is difficult. Now to actually answer your question, hospitality is a team sport. It doesn’t matter how hospitable I am as the leader of the organization, it’s the um, extent to which everyone of the team is inspired and engaged and driven to be hospitable.

The extent to which they are bought into the spirit of the collective endeavor that defines the experience as a whole. So the only way to actually bring what we did to life in any organization is through a culture of true empowerment where everyone on the team feels a great sense of agency.

Michael Hyatt: Hmm. 

Will Guidara: Now, how did I make sure that what I was trying to extend to the guest was embraced by the team?

Which by the way, it’s a great question because you can’t expect people to treat your customers in a way that they are not treated.

Michael Hyatt: Oh, say that 

again. 

Will Guidara: You can’t expect your people to treat your customers in a way that they themselves are not treated.

Michael Hyatt: This is powerful. If you lead a business. 

Mm-Hmm.

Will Guidara: Um, and so there’s two, there’s two sides of it, okay. A. Yeah, I took care of the team.

Like we had good benefits, we had great parties, we had things to look forward to. I mean, by the way, I, I really do think that in any culture, my dad always says the secret to happiness is always having something to look forward to. If your team doesn’t have a few inflection points over the course of the year, moments where they can play just as hard, if not harder than they work, I think you’re leaving a beautiful cultural opportunity on the

table. That’s a great takeaway.

But. Also empowering the team to be hospitable. Giving them the permission and the resources to do so is on its own a gesture of hospitality to them.

Megan Hyatt-Miller: Mm-Hmm. 

Will Guidara: So many people in so many businesses complain that it’s hard to recruit and retain good people, but. Yeah, of course. It’s hard to recruit and retain good people if they feel zero control over their own destiny.

If they have no ability to bring other people joy, because by the way, I don’t think there’s anything more energizing than when you get to see the look on someone else’s face when they receive a gift, you are responsible for giving them. If you can create a culture where everyone in your team is empowered to give other people gifts, that on its own is a gesture of hospitality to the gift givers as much as it is to the gift receivers.

Megan Hyatt-Miller: I love that. Okay, so I’m, I’m now remembering it’s been a while since I read this book, but I’m remembering a story about, um, 

dogs No, not hot dogs. Although that’s great too. That’s a great story What I was thinking of was didn’t you promote someone internally who was very young to become the head of your beverage program?

Will Guidara: Yeah. that story a little bit? ’cause I think it’s a great example. I do wanna get the 

Megan Hyatt-Miller: hotdog story a minute. Okay. So

Will Guidara: Yeah. 

Megan Hyatt-Miller: your So. just for a second.

Will Guidara: So Simon Sinek, who is my publisher on this book, is his book, the Infinite Game, which I just, I love, love, love, love that book. And one of the things he talks about in it is the importance of having a worthy rival, right? Like picking a competitor and using them to drive you. And our competitor for many, many years in New York City, was a restaurant called Per se,

Megan Hyatt-Miller: Yeah. 

Will Guidara: and I would go there every year.

And for the first few years, I’d leave deflated and frustrated by how much better than they they were than us. And with each passing year, I’d leave saying, all right, we actually do this better than them, but they still do this better than us. And yet, at the same time, I’d look for things they didn’t do well,

Megan Hyatt-Miller: Hmm. 

Will Guidara: because if they weren’t doing something well, I probably also wasn’t doing it well, but maybe this was the thing I could invest in.

Because strategically now, I would by definition be better than them at that. Um, and one night I went there, I had an amazing meal and when I say perfect, I mean perfect, perfect 

until the very end of the meal when I ordered a cup of coffee and they poured me coffee and it was just fine. Um, I like to journal every night.

Um, I journal for a few different reasons. One, because. My dad long ago told me that perspective has an expiration date, and journaling is the best way to hold onto your perspective, such that you can tap back into it later in life. 

I journal because I’m an intense person and I think I’m a pretty good kind man, but I let my emotions get away from me once in a while and.

At the end of the day, once you know the sea is calm, I can identify the moments I need to apologize for the next day. But I also journal because that’s when I can put intention to intuition and actually review the experiences of the day and come up with a game plan for tomorrow. And I was journaling after that meal and reflecting on it and said The coffee, why wasn’t the coffee good?

And with a bit of consideration it was, it was clear in, in most fine dining restaurants, especially then it’s changed a little bit. Now all the beverage programs, the wine, beer, cocktails, coffee, tea are run by a wine director who by definition is passionate about wine and yet they’re saddled with these other responsibilities when at the same time, in most fine dining restaurants, there’s a bunch of people in the restaurant desperately craving more responsibility.

I. I found, and I’ve done this exercise, a lot of people in different companies, if you put all of your people, like open up an Excel sheet, put all your people across the top and then list their responsibilities down very often it’s a, it goes up and down, up and down. Responsibilities rarely are equally distributed, um, which means a lot of people don’t feel empowered and a lot of people feel overwhelmed in this case.

There was wine director dealing with a bunch of programs he had no passion for. While there were other people on my team that were so passionate about those exact things, and at the time the average age of my team was like 24 years old, and I had a busboy who was so excited about coffee, a food runner that was so passionate about Tea A, you get the gist.

And so the next day in pre, I just said, Hey, we are no longer following the rule that you need to be a manager to have responsibility. Who wants to run these programs and I, I handpicked coffee, tea, whatever. it was very, very difficult in the short term, extraordinarily difficult. These people had never run a beverage program before.

It took much more of our time in the short term. In the long term, a few different things happened. One, the coffee list, the beer list, the tea list, all of them within a year. And this is not bombastic, were rated. One of the best of their kind in America, because they had one person uniquely focused on that thing.

Two, all of them were much more engaged in every other detail of the restaurant because now they felt a sense of ownership in what we were doing and where we were going. Three, every one of the team was more passionate about those programs because now they’re supporting one of their peers and their passions.

And four, the wine list got better because the person running it was no longer distracted with things. They cared so much less about. I, I really do believe that if everyone did an ownership interrogation where they looked at all of the things close to the bottom of one person’s list and tried to move them to the top of someone else’s list, someone who perhaps doesn’t even have a list yet more equally, distribute ownership is the most effective way to more equally dole out opportunities for passion. 

Michael Hyatt: I’m curious, will you know the subtitle of your book is The Remarkable Power of Giving People More Than They Expect?

Will Guidara: Hmm, 

Michael Hyatt: Where did that come from? I mean, that’s 

not common. 

Will Guidara: hmm. You know, it’s funny, I say this a lot. We’re in this really unfortunate cultural season where we’re just not used to people going above and to beyond for us that often anymore. And I’m always sensitive that I’m not. glorifying the past is always being better than the present, but I really do think that’s true right now.

It feels like there’s less of a motivation to do that now. Um, but my gosh, when it happens, it feels good. You know? I don’t know exactly where it came from. I mean, when I was a kid, and I read about this in the book, people often tell me that they cried when they read the book, and it’s be most often because of this story, which is that my mom.

Was diagnosed with brain cancer, ultimately became a quadriplegic, and my dad and I were, were a team, we were a two person team charged with him having a job, me going to school, and then together taking care of my mom. My dad moved us, moved our house so that it was within walking distance of my school.

’cause he was always very concerned about me growing up with a lack of confidence and never wanted me to be too overly reliant on other people’s parents to drive me around. And so he purposefully bought a home close to school, which had a really big hangout room upstairs, so that we became the place that everyone went.

And I never needed someone to gimme a ride.

Megan Hyatt-Miller: Wow. 

Will Guidara: I’m, I’m telling this story because I, I think there’s two re two parts of this that perhaps answer that question. One, my dad is unbelievable and he is the most inspiring person in the world to me, and that started because through that entire experience with my mom, he never felt bad for himself.

In fact, to the contrary, I saw him derive pleasure out of being called to serve her. And so I did too. I grew up loving, having had the opportunity to, to serve my mom. And if I could go back in time, obviously I would’ve changed it had I had a magic wand and she could be healthy and alive with us today.

But I looked at my other friends and said, well, they never get to take care of their mom like I do. Like we wore it as a badge of honor.

Megan Hyatt-Miller: That’s

amazing. 

Will Guidara: Um, but then also since everyone always came over to my house, I was the host, I was the entertainer, and I just got really into. Creating awesome experiences for my friends when they came over.

And so I think it was just embedded in me as a kid. And then I went on to work for Danny Meyer, who was an unbelievable restaurateur, and his book set in the table. What is the other great hospitality book that’s been written? And I consider mine to be a sequel to his. But yeah, it’s just a part of who I am and what I am driven by, what I derive pleasure from.

Megan Hyatt-Miller: Hmm, 

Michael Hyatt: I, I do want to illustrate this. Not from my life, but from your story in the book about the hot 

dogs, Hmm. because I think this demonstrates it’s like to create delight other people. But you have to go outside of your comfort zone and do something 

that’s sort of out of the norm. 

Will Guidara: Yeah. So the hotdog story has become a big one, most notably, because if anyone out there is seeing the show, the Bear, um, they used this story as the central thesis for one of their episodes. Um. I had written down these words, unreasonable hospitality a couple years before this happened, and I didn’t actually understand what they meant when I wrote them down.

I simply just knew that they represented the impact I wanted to make in my industry. by the way, I think it’s okay to pursue something you don’t fully understand. I think a lot of people spend so much time trying to perfectly articulate an idea. They never start pursuing it. But I really do believe if you feel enough of a connection to something, just start running towards it and trust in the fact that it will reveal itself to you along the way. and then one day I was in the dining room on a busier than normal lunch service. Um, the servers were just getting killed, right? You know, on those days everyone’s been to a restaurant when they’re in the weeds and everyone’s running around, and that’s when if you’re a good owner or a good leader, you step in to help.

And when you do, when I did, I would always just bust tables. I think that’s also important. The higher up and the hierarchy you get, the more important it is that when you chip in, you do the most menial task. A, to remind your team that you’re good at that stuff, and B, to show them very clearly that you’ll never ask them to do something you’re not willing to do yourself.

Michael Hyatt: Love that.

Megan Hyatt-Miller: So true. 

Will Guidara: Um, and I was clearing dirty plates from this table of four. They were four foodies on vacation to New York from Europe. Just to eat at restaurants. That was the whole point of their trip. And this was their last meal. They were gonna the airport right afterwards to head back home. And while I was at the table, I ever heard them talking and they were going on and on about the, the trip they’d had.

They’d been to Thein and Danielle, Le Jean George and per se, and now the Madison Park. And if you’re listening and you have no idea what those restaurants are, trust in the fanciness of the names that they’re really good ones. But then one woman jumped in and said, yeah, but you know what? I never got to have a New York City hotdog.

It’s such an iconic part of the city. I’m, I’m kind of sad. I never got one. And it was like one of those light bulb moments in a cartoon. I calmly walked back into the kitchen, dropped off the place, and then ran outside, bought a hotdog from the cart, ran back inside. Then came the hard part, which was convincing my fancy chef to serve it in our fancy restaurant, but I told him it was important to me.

And he cut the hot dog up into four perfect pieces. And we put one of the pieces on each plate, put a little swish with ketchup, mustard, a little scoop of sauerkraut. And relic made ’em all look really, really fancy. And then before their final savory course, which was a, our signature honey lavender glazed muscovy duck that had been dry aged for two weeks using a technique that had taken us years to perfect.

I I brought out what we in New York, call a dirty water dog to the table. And they freaked out. You know, I’d served like millions of dollars worth of food in my career to that point, and the fancy stuff too, right? Like Wagyu beef and lobster and caviar and all this stuff. And yet I had never seen anyone react to anything I served them like they did to that hot dog.

Um, and that moment, that experience reflecting on its systemizing, that approach is ultimately. What opened the doors to us doing everything we went on to

do. 

Megan Hyatt-Miller: That’s an amazing story. So I should have asked you this at the beginning, but how do you define hospitality? What does that mean to you, and how do you know you’ve achieved it?

Will Guidara: You know, sometimes the best way to understand what something is is to first start by understanding what it’s not. I think way too many people conflate service and hospitality as being the same thing. They’re undeniably very, very different things. Service is a part of the product and my world Service is giving the right plate of food to the right person within the right amount of time, and charging them the right amount of money for that plate of food.

Um, service is just keeping the baseline promise you’ve made. Hospitality is how you make people feel when you do that thing. Do they feel seen? Do they feel a sense of belonging? Do they feel genuinely welcome? Do they feel a sense of connection to you? Do they feel like you are pursuing them with creativity and intention?

Uh, but of the many ones I ripped through, I think one of the, the, the, the best, like. Ones in its ability to help people understand it is do they feel seen? I was in a conversation with a buddy of mine and, uh, you know, when you have your, um, your friends that try to just poke holes and everything, so he is like, is this service or hospitality?

Is this service or hospitality? It is just like ripping through a bunch of stuff. Um. One of the things he’s like, so if they see that I am on a first date and it’s not going well, and so they speed up the meal, is that service or hospitality? I said, you said it in the question. He said if they see that. Right. It’s people like being present enough with you, paying enough attention, trying hard enough to understand you, such that they contour what they’re doing in a way that it happens for you not to you.

Megan Hyatt-Miller: Mm. 

Will Guidara: That’s hospitality.

Michael Hyatt: That first of all, that’s brilliant, but how in the world do you teach that or build that into a culture? And I, and I get that probably as a leader, you’ve gotta set the pace and be the example. But how do you get that all the way down so that you know the person who’s refilling the water is observant and present at all the things you said.

Will Guidara: So first of all, you can systemize it. I, I believe you can create systems within your organization that are inherently hospitable and. The story that I love to tell, that I think most perfectly illustrates this, um, happened to me last year. I was speaking at Sundance, um, at film, at the film festival, and anyone who flew anywhere in 2023 can relate to the fact that flights were delayed constantly.

This one was particularly bad. It was like delayed seven hours or something. And I got to the hotel at four in the morning and one of my pet peeves is how it’s becoming more and more. Time consuming to check into a hotel these days and I’m exhausted. I just woken up having slept for the hour drive from the airport and walked in, gearing up for a lengthy check-in, but there’s just one person in the hotel.

It’s four in the morning. The overnight manager, a guy named Oscar, and he is just standing in the hotel holding my room key. He didn’t know who I was. This was not special for me. Um, he only knew who I was because I was the last person literally to get there. And he said, Mr. Guera, you must be exhausted.

Here’s your room key. Just go get some sleep. We can check you in in the morning.

Megan Hyatt-Miller: Wow. 

Will Guidara: know, sometimes these little things, the smallest gestures are the most profound When they hit that hard in, in that moment, and I went up to my room, fell asleep immediately, and I, the next morning, I’ve never been more excited to check into a hotel.

I ran downstairs, checked in, and then ran around trying to find the general manager. Found him and I said, Hey dude, Oscar, he’s unbelievable. He must be the most hospitable person on your team. You’ll never believe what he did for me. And he goes, um, Oscar is amazing, and I, I can tell you exactly what he did for you because it had nothing to do with Oscar.

And I said, what? He goes, A few months ago we had a meeting. The delays into Utah have been terrible. And so he said, how do we systemize hospitality? And that’s what they came up with. If you checked into that hotel after one or two in the morning, I forget what it was. They gave you the key, let you go to sleep, they’d check you in the morning.

Um, that’s cool. What’s cooler is that he went on to say that in fact, Oscar was not hospitable at all

Megan Hyatt-Miller: Amazing. 

Will Guidara: when they started the program. But they gave Oscar a system to follow. They asked him to color within the lines, and every time he did that, he saw the looks on people’s faces like the one he saw on mine and ultimately became addicted to those looks. And over time started to come up with more and more creative displays of hospitality because they got him addicted.

So what I’m saying is two things. One, you can systemize it if any business just does some simple pattern recognition, looks for some recurring moments, and then decides how they wanna respond every time those moments occur. Um, and just makes it a part of the system no differently than you’ve never been to a hotel and wondered whether or not the person at the front desk was gonna remember to run your credit card.

Right? They’ve just decided that that’s normal. At that hotel, they decided that what Oscar did for me was now normal. It was not going above and beyond for, for me, anywhere. It was normal. If you normalize this stuff, it can get people addicted to it, and then suddenly the culture takes root in a pretty viral and amazing way.

Megan Hyatt-Miller: Can you give us some examples that are like, outside of the restaurant or general hospitality space, like a service based business or, you know, you work at a bank or, I don’t 

know, 

just something where it’s not as as

natural. 

Will Guidara: Oh my gosh. Yeah, I, I mean, so I do this on my Instagram now, um, where people send me these stories all the time, and then I read these letters and I call it Unreasonable Hospitality out in the world. And gosh, these stories are so beautiful and so inspiring. And this one, this is the one that I, I, I think I just read, I’m not sure if I posted it yet, but I love this one so much.

So a guy wrote in, um, that. He is like 21 years old. He still goes to his pediatric dentist, which I didn’t realize. That’s a thing. People like develop such an emotional connection to their pediatric dentist that they just stay with him for as long as they can. Um, and he is been going there since he was a little kid.

And over the years, you know, like when he didn’t have a cavity, they’d take a Polaroid of him and they’d put it on the no cavity wall for the next month. And that was like a thing there. And anyway, he, he, he went to the. To the dentist not too long ago, and on his way out he goes to make his next appointment.

They’re like, oh my gosh, you must not have gotten our, our letter. Like, you’re too old for the pediatric dentist now. This, this was your last appointment with us. And, but they had it, it all figured out to give him recommendations for where to go next and whatever. But he was sad, right? Like he, this was like a thing that he’d really.

Loved or a person that he really loved. Anyway, he goes home, goes back to his life. Two weeks later, a package comes. From that dentist. From the pediatric dentist. And he assumes that he forgot to pay the bill or something, and it’s the invoice. But he opens it up and it is every single Polaroid that they took of him since he was a little kid for the no cavity wall, all put together in a little book for him to have for the rest of his life, they give him, gave him the ability to walk down memory lane and relive so many beautiful moments.

And by the way, that’s not hard clear. They must have a file cabinet somewhere. They do it and they. It’s like a, you know, it’s like a long game, right? They play the long game. But, the beautiful thing about these gestures of hospitality is when you give people stories like this to tell, guess what they’re gonna do?

They’re gonna tell them over and over and over again. And if you knew, then, if you lived in the city where that pediatric dentist was located, I guarantee you, you have a new kid, you’re sending them to him.

Megan Hyatt-Miller: that’s 

right. 

Will Guidara: Um, they exist all 

over. 

Michael Hyatt: We, we were talking earlier about Blackberry Farm, which is, we both enjoyed that and we talk about it nonstop because of the extraordinary, nonstop. Nonstop because of the extraordinary experiences had there. But one of the challenges, I think, um, last night I was listening to an interview with Brian Chesky, the founder of Airbnb, and he was talking about Hm. sort of this exercise they would do called the 11 Star exercise.

Have you heard of 

this? 

Will Guidara: Mm 

Michael Hyatt: So he says, you know, they, they will engineer some experience and they say, okay, what would take it from whatever star it is in their own estimation to a five star? What is a six star, seven star? And it, and it’s outrageous by the time you get to 11 star 

experience and, and then he tries to, then he says, okay, you gotta expand your thinking.

What’s an 11 star experience? And then back it down to what’s. You know, reasonable what you can actually fulfill time and time again. I think one of the challenges of doing this as a business person, it seems to me, is that what you deliver that’s extraordinary, becomes expected, and then it kind of loses its punch.

Because now, like if I go to Blackberry Farm, I’m, I love it, I’m not wowed anymore because I expect 

it. 

Will Guidara: Well, my instinct, and I’m not. Sitting comfortably in your brain right now, but is that the things you expect are still the excellence things?

Michael Hyatt: Yes. 

Will Guidara: Yeah. I mean, but that’s the part of running an excellent business, right? Like you do if you, if people expect you to be really excellent. Yeah. You just need to be consistently excellent and it’s no longer surprising to people, but.

Isn’t that kinda the point? Like you deliver consistently on an idea and they’re, they go to you because they don’t want to be surprised.

I, I 

Megan Hyatt-Miller: I, think that is, that’s key. So I think that’s so true because at Blackberry Farm, you know, we could, it is, is not inexpensive. We were just, you know, talking about that we could go to Europe and probably spend the same amount of money. But part of what I love about going there, a perfectionist. I’ve really a perfectionist about hospitality.

Like I never say anything is, is as good as that. And I love that when I’m there. I know that I’m not gonna feel that cognitive dissonance between my expectations and reality. I love that I’m gonna feel nurtured, that I’m gonna feel seen. To your point, will I love that. I know I can order. Both desserts and both entrees if I want to, and somebody’s gonna help me find a great wine that I’ve never had before that I love and it’s not gonna be intimidating.

Like I, the things that were surprising the first time are comforting

now. 

Will Guidara: Yes. And that the, the, the hospitality side

Megan Hyatt-Miller: Yeah, 

Will Guidara: is still surprising. I.

And I’ll give you an, I’ll give you an 

example. Well, because they, when you’re doing it the right way, no two moments are the same. So I’ll give you the, I’ll tell you the two stories, two things that happened, uh, for me when I was at Blackberry 10 days ago, it was me and my wife and another couple that had just gotten married.

We took them to Blackberry as their, as their wedding gift, and. Um, his wife, one of her jokes going down there is, we’re all getting tattoos together this weekend. Like, we’re gonna, we’re gonna, and I’m knowing that I will never get a tattoo in my entire life, but it was just something. And apparently on their golf cart ride to their room, she mentioned that.

And the next day we all had temporary tattoos placed in our rooms.

Megan Hyatt-Miller: Oh, I 

Will Guidara: That was, That was, beautiful. Second one is we were playing pickleball. One morning. We, we were in the golf cart on our way back to our rooms and somehow, magically, we have no idea how my shirt, my long sleeve shirt that I had taken off to play pickleball was gone.

We couldn’t find it. It was just gone. I asked the people at Blackberry, if anyone turned down a shirt or turned a shirt into Lost and found, they didn’t, um. Next morning, or not even the next morning, later that day, a long sleeved Blackberry Farm, Blackberry Mountain T-shirt, uh, t-shirt was in my room waiting for me, um, saying We couldn’t find your shirt, but here’s one on us.

Right? Those things, 

when it’s real genuine thoughtfulness,

it’s never expected because it’s like a magic trick every single time. And. 

When I go to see a magician, a great magician, I love magic. do I know they’re gonna blow my mind? Yeah. That’s why I’m gonna see ’em. Am I still like, what the heck just happened?

Every time they do one of those tricks? Absolutely. I, I believe everything I talk about, it’s just magic, but around thoughtfulness, the, the, the magician duo, pen and teller, there’s a famous quote by teller. Sometimes magic is just being willing to do, to invest more energy into something than anyone else could reasonably expect.

riverside_full_focus studio_raw-synced-video-cfr_focus_on this_0209: Hmm. 

Will Guidara: That’s everything I’m

talking about is just caring more and trying harder.

riverside_full_focus studio_raw-synced-video-cfr_focus_on this_0209: I love that. You know, one 

of the things you say in the book is how you do anything is how you do 

everything. Hmm. I had a nickel for every time I’ve quoted you on that, Huh. I would be very wealthy. Um, but I think it’s so powerful. So how does this whole concept of hospitality.

hospitality show up in other areas of your life.

Will Guidara: Hmm. I mean, relationships are relationships and I believe so many of the lessons you learn from those in life can be applied to those at work and vice versa. I think we. Some of the, the worst advice I was ever given when I was a kid is like, Hey, you gotta really, you know, keep work and life separated.

Like, you gotta really keep one over here and one over here. And I think that’s just the dumbest advice anyone could ever give, because A, if you’re really passionate about your work, which I hope as many people out there are as possible, and you’re really passionate about your life and you keep them two, two separate.

You’re constantly feeling guilty when you’re pursuing one, that you’re not also pursuing the other. But also if you keep them two separate, you fail to realize how many, how much overlap there is in how to thrive at both. Um, and so I, I just believe life at the end of the day is a, is a collection of relationships and.

I mean, unreasonable hospitality is just that. It’s being relentless, unreasonable, creative, and intentional in pursuit of relationships. Whether that’s with the people that work for you, the people you work with, the people you serve, or your spouse, your kids, your dad, your friends, you know, like Everyone listening to this right now is relentlessly passionate in pursuit of something that I’ve not yet met anyone who’s not relentlessly passionate in pursuit of something. It could be video games, it could be watching football on Sundays, or it could be something bigger and more significant. But I’m just here to say that you should just.

be as relentlessly passionate in your pursuit of relationships too. Um, and that manifests in different ways, but I try to love my wife in the way that I wrote that book. I try to raise my kids in the way that I wrote that book. That’s, that’s proven to be the hardest one so far, but I’m working on it.

riverside_full_focus studio_raw-synced-video-cfr_focus_on this_0209: So humbling. Get it. 

So what guys eat? What’s a, what’s a normal day of what you eat? Because you’re not the only food guy in your family. 

Will Guidara: Yeah. 

riverside_full_focus studio_raw-synced-video-cfr_focus_on this_0209: the cobbler’s son 

wear shoes? 

Will Guidara: Yeah. 

riverside_full_focus studio_raw-synced-video-cfr_focus_on this_0209: I’m like, are you guys eating Chick-fil-A every day or what?

What does breakfast, lunch and dinner look like at the Guera household?

Will Guidara: Um, 

okay. Yeah, so my wife is Christina Tosi, who is the founder of Milk Bar.

And. you eat cake three times a day? Like, is 

riverside_full_focus studio_raw-synced-video-cfr_focus_on this_0209: that, 

Will Guidara: We eat a lot of cake. Yeah. By the way, I used to be Will Guera. Now I am most, uh, most known as Christina Toy’s husband, which I’m

totally comfortable with. Um, and she recipe tests a lot at home. So yeah, I do, I do eat a lot more dessert that I probably should.

No, we don’t eat. We’re not, we’re not fancy people at home. Um, I love, I love Me, a chicken, a chicken sandwich from Chick-fil-A. Um,

riverside_full_focus studio_raw-synced-video-cfr_focus_on this_0209: at 

hospitality. 

Will Guidara: they’re amazing. I, I’ve, I’ve spent some time with them now, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve spoken to them a couple times over the last year and they’re, they’re just remarkable. but you know, right now I’m up in the country.

I’m on our farm up at the country. We have a Traeger, we love smoking meat up here. And it’s like, for me, this, this is when I wanna have an amazing meal, like a crazy, amazing meal. I go to a 

restaurant. Um, this is where I think too many people get it wrong when it comes to eating at home. I’ve been to so many friends’ houses and they invite me over and other friends, and they’re focused so much on impressing people with how well they can cook that you go there and they’re in their kitchens cooking the entire time you’re there.

And what I always have to remind them is, Hey, if I wanted a great meal, I’m not coming to your house, I’m going to a restaurant. I’m coming to your house because I wanna spend time with you. 

Um, and so for us, I’ll work today until six 30 or something in this dinner time. And so what I don’t want to do is like my wife and I like Hectically Rabidly cooking for 30 minutes.

I want to cook something simple, quickly and sit down around the table with my kids and have a family dinner. That’s more important to me than the food we’re eating.

riverside_full_focus studio_raw-synced-video-cfr_focus_on this_0209: Thank you for that. That’s a really thoughtful answer. It’s, to so many areas of life. 

Yeah, I think it’s great. We have for a long time prioritized eating as a family around the table most nights. And you know, sometimes that’s spaghetti. I have boys that are football players and they are just, you know, calorie consuming machines basically at this point.

Uh, and so, you know, sometimes it’s that, sometimes it’s fun. Like last night we had our 23-year-old son over and he requested Ina Gardens chicken with 40 clothes of garlic, which is so delicious and takes forever, you know, and all that. But that’s a rarity. Like we, that’s not how we’re gonna be doing it every night.

That bar would be way too high. And what I want. Is to sit down with my kids and do what we call the gratitude report where everybody shares, you know, what was their best thing of the day and what they’re grateful for. And that’s what really matters. You know, even though we love food and we try to make it yummy, it’s not complicated.

Might be frozen 

pizza. 

Will Guidara: during covid, especially when so many different restaurants were rolling out, like all these different frozen things. I’m, I know a lot of them. So I would, we just got tons of deliveries. We didn’t order things. People were just sending us to the point where I went to Walmart and bought like one of those giant chest freezers.

And so we still have frozen food from that season that we’re going through. I wanna add two things to that answer because you, you made me think of two things. Um, one is a story that. Honors my wife. So before my mom was sick, like one of my great memories of her was she would make a bolognese and it was like, it was her Italian side of her family’s bolognese.

And we had, yeah, I mean just, and, and we had a freezer in the basement and she would make giant pots of the bolognas and she would, you know, we’d eat it that night, but we’d also put ’em in the court containers and put ’em down there. And, And then she passed away. And I, I just thought I was never gonna have that bolognese again.

And my wife, a few years ago, just started interviewing all of the different women on my mom’s Italian side of the family and got all of their descriptions for what was in that bolognese, what they remember my mom having made such that she could reverse engineer the recipe and figure it out 

again. and then she taught me how to do it.

And that’s actually one of my favorite things to do is on Sunday, every once in a while, I’ll make a giant pot of it. And I’ll put a bunch in the freezer. And that’s an easy meal, right? Like, and it’s delicious. It’s incredible. the other thing I’ll share is we were just in Seattle this past weekend with the Canlis family and my buddy Brian, he has four kids, 2, 4, 6, and eight.

And we sat down for dinner with them and they did rose and thorn with their kids. and my 3-year-old daughter participated and. We’ve done it now every night since we’ve been home with her, and it was a beautiful reminder, not only in the power of intention when it comes to connecting with people, even the ones you’ve, you feel like you don’t need as much intention to feel connected to, but also that kids are ready for things more quickly than we might otherwise think.

riverside_full_focus studio_raw-synced-video-cfr_focus_on this_0209: I think that’s really true. We’ve done that with our youngest, so we have five kids who are 23 to five 

years

old. So Oh my gosh. all the stages, and the two oldest ones are out of the house now. But you know, when they were younger, they used to hate the gratitude report from time to time.

Like, why do we have to be hemmed in by this? I don’t. I don’t like this. Now when they come home for dinner. excited to do the gratitude report because it’s just kind of a liturgy 

of, Yeah. connection and, and it’s something that you can fall into that’s meaningful, that you have years and years and years of memories around, and it’s really special.

Well, 

we did this version of this when Megan and her sisters were young. We have five daughters. Megan’s the oldest, uh, we did a version of that. Mm-Hmm. Right. So we called it the best things. Oh. 

And I hated it. I, I was like, yeah, my mom would make us do it. It didn’t matter if you had the worst day. You know, your boyfriend dumped you in middle school.

It didn’t matter. You were going to share a best thing no matter what. 

She was 

relentless. She was relentless. And it was great. 

Yeah. And so you’ve, I mean, it was great 

after the fact, you know, and I’ve 

watched all you girls do the same thing with your kids. Right. Which has been fun. 

Right? 

It’s neat. 

Will Guidara: I watched you pay forward the extent to which you felt tortured by me.

riverside_full_focus studio_raw-synced-video-cfr_focus_on this_0209: great. And then, and then they’re grateful for it too. So apparently that’s how it works. You have to hate it and then you love it. 

as we wrap up here.

You know, we talk about the double win, winning at work and succeeding at life. What’s, what’s your version of that so that you kind of maintain life balance? We know you’re relentless in your work and you have achieved a, a level of excellence. That’s extraordinary. But it sounds like from our conversation that that’s really, you know, what you do anywhere is what you do everywhere.

Will Guidara: I, I had a conversation with a buddy of mine the other night over dinner about this, and yeah, you better win at both because of you’re losing at life and you’re winning at work. It doesn’t. It doesn’t matter, right? What’s the point? And yet, too often the approach that people take to finding balance is through doing less work, which I think is shortsighted.

I think the key is there are things that are energy giving and energy depleting.

Megan Hyatt-Miller: Mm-Hmm. 

Will Guidara: I think so long as the time you spend doing what you do for a living is as energy giving as possible, then you’re well equipped to win at life. But if you just start stripping down your work to the point where you don’t feel the pride and satisfaction that comes from knowing you’re contributing something to the world.

I don’t think you have the ability to win at life no matter how much time you’re spending pursuing the people that you love in life. And so I found that I win at both when I lean into both, not when I lean more into one and lean back from the other.

riverside_full_focus studio_raw-synced-video-cfr_focus_on this_0209: This is an important nuance. Yeah. That I don’t think we’ve captured before, so thank you for that. It’s a gift. To us, uh, do you think that a, maybe a better word than balance would be work life integration?

Will Guidara: Hmm. Yeah. I love that.

riverside_full_focus studio_raw-synced-video-cfr_focus_on this_0209: Well, we have a handful of questions that we ask every guest that comes on the Double Win Show. And the first one is, what is the biggest obstacle right now for you in getting the double win, winning at work and succeeding in life? ’cause I think this changes at different 

seasons. 

Will Guidara: Mm. I need to get better at saying no right now. I, I just did a, I just interviewed Ryan Holiday, um, you know who 

Ryan 

Holiday is? He, you know, um, ’cause he has a new book out this week and so I was interviewing him at the Barnes and Noble, um, in Union Square, and I hadn’t met him yet, but we were the same publisher, same speaking agent, and.

He sent me this text the next day. I do wish I’d been more confident when I started doing speaking gigs. I was always worried it was just going to suddenly stop, so I did too many and didn’t turn down enough 12 years later. Do, do, do,

riverside_full_focus studio_raw-synced-video-cfr_focus_on this_0209: Wow. 

Will Guidara: that is the thing that I’m

riverside_full_focus studio_raw-synced-video-cfr_focus_on this_0209: Yep. 

Will Guidara: trying to figure out right now.

riverside_full_focus studio_raw-synced-video-cfr_focus_on this_0209: I think our audience can really relate to that. 

Well, I can really relate to that. Mm-Hmm. Because still you would think at my age that I would’ve nailed this by now, Hmm. struggle with saying no, there’s just so much I wanna experience in life and so many people I want to help and all of that. but I find that, that if I go all out in that, then I have nothing 

to be able to 

give. Yeah. gotta be an appropriate level of self-care there. And for me, that’s saying no. 

And I think, uh, being really conscious of not being in a place of scarcity and being in a place of abundance, and I struggle with that. I think that’s, I mean, our human nature is one of scarcity. You know, we’re just, we have Yeah. bias that our, our brain is wired toward.

And so I think it’s a lot to overcome, you know, even when you’re intentional about it. Mm-Hmm. So, thank you that, I think that’s helpful. Okay. How do you personally know? When you are winning at work and succeeding at life,

Will Guidara: Mm.

Um, the, I’m laughing at the answer I was about to give, which is that there’s enough money in the bank and my wife’s not pissed. Um, but

riverside_full_focus studio_raw-synced-video-cfr_focus_on this_0209: you would be surprised how people’s answers have been.

Will Guidara: no, but I mean, genuinely I don’t, I I, I’m a, I’m a strong believer in the fact that you need to just trust your gut and like. You know that feeling when it doesn’t happen often, but when you’re just like walking down the road and you realize that for that exact moment, you do not have a care in the world.

Like when you get one of those moments, like hold onto it for as long as you can because I don’t care how. Unanxious you may be as a person, we always have like a little reverb of anxiety 

somewhere in 

the peripheral, and 

when I don’t feel any of it at all, when I feel one of those moments of profound peace, I know that things are, are going pretty well.

riverside_full_focus studio_raw-synced-video-cfr_focus_on this_0209: Yeah. That’s awesome. Okay. Then lastly, what is one ritual or routine that helps you do what you do?

Will Guidara: I do like journaling, but I think everyone needs to figure out what their oxygen mask is, what is the thing that refills their picture and find time to do it. the thing that brings me like, that, like fully restores me, and I don’t get to do it very often, but. Is ordering Chinese foods sitting alone on the couch and binge watching television.

And I get it maybe like once a month now, or sometimes if I’m on the road I’ll literally like just go to my hotel room, order Chinese food and watch tv. Like I crave time with people, but sometimes I just need time alone. 

And I, I, think the lesson there is not to order Chinese food and binge watch tv. I think it’s like.

In the most nonjudgmental way, just look for the things that bring you joy and reenergize you. And whether they feel cool or noble or widely respected, just do them. You know, like too many people, I feel like that question. They would feel this societal pressure to say meditation or journaling or my going on a run or this stuff.

All of which is good. But that doesn’t mean that’s the only version of Right. 

riverside_full_focus studio_raw-synced-video-cfr_focus_on this_0209: Thank you so much. Yeah. Um, this has been a gift Mm-Hmm. To us and to our pals listening and I just am so inspired 

Yeah. By your work. 

Will Guidara: Oh man. Thank you. I know. Listen, I know I’m no Don Miller, but it’s good to, it’s good to, it’s good to hang out with people that Don Miller just hung out with, right. This is a big deal.

riverside_full_focus studio_raw-synced-video-cfr_focus_on this_0209: Oh 

man. 

Well, we’ll all have to have dinner when you move to town. 

Will Guidara: Hey, uh. I just wanna say I loved meeting you however long ago that was, and to get to now spend time with both of you. It’s a gift, and I can’t wait to see you in person sometime soon.

riverside_full_focus studio_raw-synced-video-cfr_focus_on this_0209: Awesome. Us 

too. 

Thanks buddy. 

Thank 

you. 

Will Guidara: Bye guys. 

Michael Hyatt: That was really amazing. 

Megan Hyatt-Miller: That was so amazing. 

Michael Hyatt: I didn’t really know what to expect. As I mentioned before, um, will and I are in the same mastermind together, so I’ve spent a little bit of time with him and I feel like I know him because I, I read his book.

Megan Hyatt-Miller: Yeah. 

Michael Hyatt: But he honestly exceeded my expectations, which of course is sort of the driving force of his life. 

Megan Hyatt-Miller: Yeah. I think one of the things that was surprising to me that I wouldn’t have known to expect was just how thoughtful he was. Mm-Hmm. And how present to the conversation he was. He there was, it was clear.

There was no sense of in which he was, you know, performing or anything like that. I just, I felt like he really gave us access to his heart for. Lack of a better way to say it. 

Michael Hyatt: I do too. And, and I think he brought out some nuances Mm-Hmm. Of the double win that I hadn’t considered before. Mm-Hmm. I mean, like, one of them was you can build this into your culture.

Megan Hyatt-Miller: Yeah. 

Michael Hyatt: You know, you can take care of the people that work for you in the same way you’re trying to take care of your clients and your Mm-Hmm. Customers. And so often I think in life, we treat our clients and our customers better than we treat the members of our own family, or better than we treat Yeah.

Our friends. So that was a big takeaway for me. 

Megan Hyatt-Miller: I also loved what he said when I asked him about his definition of hospitality. You know, that it’s about how you make people feel and most importantly, making people feel seen. Mm-Hmm. And how our best experiences of hospitality or customer service or whatever they involve that, you know, if you were to kind of deconstruct them, that’s when, when you felt like a person to somebody.

Yeah. You know, and they, they really, I. See what’s unique about you and what matters to you. And then they deliver that in some way. And I, I thought it was interesting how you said, but we were talking about Blackberry Farm, you know, which I feel like we are such broken records on it. People are like, oh gosh, I know they’re not talking about Blackberry Farm, but trust us, it’s, we should they, they 

Michael Hyatt: should pay us for the, I 

Megan Hyatt-Miller: know.

Listen, I’m going to get Mary Celeste Bell on this podcast, the proprietor of Blackberry Farm, because I wanna talk to her and I think it’ll be fantastic. I do when we get there. But when you said. Doesn’t it kind of lose something as time goes on because you know what to expect if you’re not having your expectations exceeded.

And he said no, because thoughtfulness is always novel. You know, like you’re not, what you’re being thoughtful about isn’t always the same thing. And even the things that are kind of systematized into your culture, as he was talking about, you know, you can build systems to do some of this stuff. I think it’s so comforting and there are so few places in our lives where we’re nurtured.

Like we nurture our children. We don’t nurture each other necessarily. We don’t nurture our customers and the people that we’re coming into contact with. So when you experience someone thinking about you in advance and caring for you, even if you know they’re gonna do it, it just feels so good. It feels like such a relief.

I have a, a yoga class that I go to once a week that’s a restorative yoga class, and there are components of that class that I find really nurturing, and that’s why I go, not because I wanna do yoga. Because I wanna feel cared for for one hour. That’s powerful. Like someone else is taking care of me. 

Michael Hyatt: So another takeaway, and this will be the last one, but the other takeaway I got was this nuance about work life integration.

My word not wills, but I, I really hadn’t thought about that before because I do think that sometimes we think that work, work-life balance means that we have to throttle back our expectations in some area of our life. I like that he said, you gotta lean into it. And I know for a fact that the kind of work you’re doing and how much that is within something we call the desire zone, where your passion and your proficiency come together.

You know, when you’re doing that kind of work and it’s life giving, you show up at home in a different 

Megan Hyatt-Miller: Yeah. 

Michael Hyatt: Uh, state or different energy than if you’re doing work you hate. 

Megan Hyatt-Miller: So true. 

Michael Hyatt: And so it’s, it’s really, you know, to quote, will, how you do anything is how you do everything. 

Megan Hyatt-Miller: I just love this conversation.

Michael Hyatt: Yeah, me too. Well guys, thanks for joining us. We’ll look forward to talking with you next week and introducing you to somebody else. Extraordinary.