4. KRIS CARR: Thrive amid Uncertainty and Loss

Episode Transcript

Note: Transcript is AI-generated and may contain errors. Please refer to the episode audio or video for exact quotes.

Kris: It’s about mental fitness,

you know, it’s about creating those daily practices and for me, becoming very, very, um, aware of what my brain does on fear and anxiety.

 

 

MIchael: Hi, I’m Michael Hyatt. 

Megan: And I’m Megan Hyatt Miller.

MIchael: And

this is the Double Win Podcast where we talk about how to win at work and succeed at life.

Megan: Well, today we are interviewing Chris Carr, who is the author of

the brand new book. I’m not a morning person, MOUR in ING. And Chris was diagnosed with a rare and incurable stage four cancer more than 20 years ago.

But she’s not just. A cancer survivor. She is a cancer thriver, and we really get into that in our conversation with her. It’s amazing. She’s a New York Times bestselling author of such books as Crazy Sexy Diet.

And most recently, as I said, I’m not a mourning person noticing that, uh, that’s mourning as in grief. So.

She’s

been called a force of Nature by O Magazine and was named a new role model by the New York Times. Chris is also a member of Oprah’s Super Soul 100, recognizing the most influential thought leaders today.

Her work has also been featured in Forbes, the Wall Street Journal, glamor, good Morning America. The Today Show, super Soul Sunday Own, and the Oprah Winfrey Show. So here’s our conversation with Chris Carr. 

we’re so excited to have you on with us today. I think you are such a great example of somebody who, with a really unique story, but one that’s very relatable is figuring out and has figured out, and is figuring out how to win it work and succeed at life.

So I’m just so pumped to dive into your story today. Thanks for being here. 

Kris: thanks. 

Megan: to, to play a little bit at a mastermind that we met each other in person at, in, um, Charleston back in December, 2023. And that was so fun, I felt, uh, immediately connected to you and we left going. We need to have her on the podcast because I think our community will, will love learning from you.

So, so I have so many questions. But let’s start like back at the beginning. 

Tell us a little bit about your health journey, and that is, I feel like I need to put that in air quotes because that makes it sound so nice and like buttoned up. And in reality you have a pretty harrowing journey. So tell us about that and uh, what that’s meant to you.

Kris: So I did not plan to be a wellness advocate or a entrepreneur. Those were not. The the two directions I thought my life was gonna go in, but like many people who have either what I call a warning sign or a wake up call, it inspires you to get busy living. And my wake up call came on Valentine’s Day in 2003 when I was diagnosed with a rare and incurable stage four cancer.

So yeah, it was that moment that really inspired me because the first doctor that I spoke to suggested a triple organ transplant.

Both: Woo.

Kris: Exactly, and I didn’t know much about medicine at the time, which I often say, but I knew that that sounded nuts.

Both: Yeah. 

Megan: What could go wrong

Kris: Like exactly besides everything.

Megan: everything?

Kris: And then, you know, the next doctor gave me 10 years to live and the next doctor suggested radical treatment that, um, they didn’t know would do anything. 

And that’s literally the moment when I said, Hmm. I think I need to become the CEO of my health.

Both: Wow. 

MIchael: Wow. That’s a powerful concept. I like that.

Kris: And you guys will totally, uh, understand this, it meant it meant that I needed to stand in the leadership of my life and say, I’m looking for colleagues that can work with me. I need to build a team. They work with me, they work for me. Um, I know, and it’s very hard to think about that when you think about our medical world, especially.

There’s a lot of intimidation and, and, um, it can be very difficult for patients to advocate for themselves, but deciding to fake it till I made it with that mental posture. Because at first I was like, of course, everybody knows more than me and I know nothing about this. You know, I know nothing about health and wellness and I certainly knew nothing about navigating stage four cancer.

And but saying like, okay, this is how I’m gonna approach this and I’m gonna keep looking until I find my second in command.

Megan: Hmm. that Yeah. I think that’s so empowering. 

MIchael: How, how 

did you go about finding doctors? I. weren’t kind of negative, like there’s no alternative.

Kris: I kept looking because I, I, I realized that if we weren’t in alignment, you just weren’t right. For my team.

MIchael: Hmm. I just love that. 

Kris: Yeah. like that’s so clarifying. I’m thinking about our community and I’m thinking about how the people that listen to the show, the people that follow our work are self-professed high achievers. You know, these are people that are. Successful in their life. They’re, they’re making things happen.

Megan: They’re in charge of things. You know, some may be officially in leadership or entrepreneurs and some are, you know, mm-hmm. Leading in the, in another context. But regardless, they’re very confident. However, and I felt this myself as a patient, something happens when you go into like the medical world. It’s like your identity, your self-confidence, your.

Yeah, skillset feel like they vanish and all of a sudden you become almost like a child. And the ability, the, this kind of mental model of like, you’re gonna become the CEO of your health and wellness and you’re gonna build a team and you’re looking for a second in command, like gives me a way to think about this in a way that I’ve never thought about it before.

And I Hmm. like that’s so me too empowering and helps these skills that we’ve developed be transferable.

Kris: Oh, thank you for that. You know, I think it’s. Essential for us to be the leaders of our lives. 

And I, you know, it started for me in, uh, through my health journey, but then you can say, okay, how can I apply this to other areas? But in the beginning, I think I also came into it with some, I. Some advantage because I was a performer and I had been, I had a very different career.

A lot of what I was doing was advertising. And so as much as I wanted to be, you know, the next big film and television star, for whatever reason, I was just very good at selling everyday products. You know, I have sold everything from, uh, you know, Lysol to, I’ve been in two Budweiser Super Bowl commercials, so.

Both: That’s amazing.

Kris: Yeah, it is. And it was. So advertising was really where I made my mark. And um, but I bring that up because any actor, any performer, knows that when you’ve done it for years and years, you’re in it. You’re in it for the long haul. You face so much rejection. I.

Both: Hmm.

Yeah. 

Kris: You get turned down more than you get the part.

And so I think I came to this, uh, world of navigating the modern medical system with that edge of, of saying like, I’m not gonna be intimidated by this. I know what it’s like to get rejected. I know what it’s like to get punched around. Like I know what it’s like to navigate really difficult waters. How can I apply some of what I learned navigating that into this?

And so. That’s how I started. And then just to talk a little bit about the, the wellness journey, like I said, again, coming to it as a student and a newbie, which I think is such a great place way to, to come to the new things that we do. But also as leaders who’ve been doing what we’ve doing for so long, to always remember to go back to beginner’s mind.

Beginner’s mind for your customers beginner’s mind as a leader, what am I missing here? Um, and if I can go back to that place of beginner’s mind, I tend to go back to the basics, the foundational things that stand the test of time. And that’s how I approached my wellness journey of saying, okay, what are the foundational practices that I can start to learn and explore and get under my belt that will help me feel better?

As I’m finding and building my team, that will hopefully help me stay alive.

MIchael: Were you doing all the conventional things that, you know, modern medical practice recommends for cancer, but then you were supplementing it with all these sort of return to the basics? Or how did you approach this?

Kris: I wasn’t, and it wasn’t because I, you know, was brave and said no to modern medicine. It was because there still isn’t any cure for the disease that I had. So I. It’s what inspired me more. And you know what? With rare diseases, unfortunately there’s very little funding and the research takes a very long time because they’re such a small demographic of patients, right?

And so, for example, pharmaceutical companies aren’t gonna like put a lot of investment in that because the returns aren’t there. And so when I finally found my doctor, who I’m still with 21 years later, we just had our. 21 year scan and we started to talk about succession planning.

Megan: Wow, that’s a whole different kind of succession

Kris: I know.

Megan: of its own, isn’t it?

Kris: Yeah. Because I was like, Hey, you know, we’ve been doing this a lot of years. Are you thinking about retiring anytime soon? Do we have to start talking about this and building this into our plan? but anyway, what he said to me was, look, this thing that you have is a total black box. Sometimes it’s slow growing.

Sometimes it’s aggressive. Sometimes it changes. We are gonna watch and wait and track. You. We’re gonna watch and wait and let cancer make the first move if you’re up for that. And what I think you need to do is watch and live.

Megan: what, what did that mean to you when he said that to you? What, what did you go. Fourth in due at that point.

Kris: Well, that was the inciting incident,

right? sounds like it.

Because I was like, are you high? Are you taking from your own medical stash? Hmm. I am gonna live with stage four cancer. Like, I don’t understand that you’re supposed to cut it out and fry it and make it go away. And, and then I get back to the, my former life that I didn’t even really like in the first place.

Like what? And I left the hospital and went to Whole Foods because I thought, you know, I don’t know what to do. And the grocery store has vegetables and I don’t know about that either, but I guess I’m just gonna. Start here and become a student of wellbeing. And, um, I cried at, in the produce aisle, I didn’t know what was more frightening, this thing that he had just told me, or Kale, what are you, how does

someone eat you? Why is, is this gonna be good? This stinks. You know, so slowly but surely, like so many of us, even myself, when I was starting out as an entrepreneur. You start to find the people you wanna learn from and you start to piece it all together and, and really that’s what I did after he told me to do that.

MIchael: it slow down or, I mean, I, it sounds like you had enough time to kind of figure out some of this stuff because it wasn’t advancing so quickly that you, I don’t know, you tell me, but were you racing a deadline?

Kris: No, the de deadlines were self-imposed. I think we don’t know how my disease started. We don’t know how it, it could have. Develop slowly. So I have it in all, you know, three organs. I have dozens of tumors throughout my lungs and my liver. And so it could have come on slowly and progressed, or it could have come on Hmm. like in a hailstorm.

And so, but what we know now is that it has, it’s, it’s slow growing. It’s stable, it isn’t moving. Again, that could change. So for a lot of years it was about tracking how quickly it was growing and then comparing it to previous scans. After a while, we realized, okay, God willing, in the creek don’t rise.

It’s still behaving itself, right? But in the beginning, we didn’t know. So I was moving at a pace because I thought, well, if these guys can’t figure it out, maybe I can, what can I do to slow this thing down? So it was a self-imposed deadline. Um, and that meant that I went in all, all in as you’re talking, I’m thinking about kind of the big picture of life and I’m thinking about. What incredible uncertainty you’ve lived with. I was thinking the same thing for 21 years. I mean, first of all, I hate uncertainty. I have a very complicated, actually, it’s not complicated.

Megan: It’s just a, it’s a hate, hate relationship with uncertainty. Me too. Actually, I don’t like it. It doesn’t feel good in my body. It just doesn’t feel good. I would like to just know everything if I could and, you know, have, have everything be under control, which of course is not quite how it works. Um, whether it’s in small ways or big ways, life turns out to be.

You know, not a giver of certainties. And I’m just wondering how did you manage, how have you managed that uncertainty and managed to live with it for 21 years without it being, especially from 

MIchael: an emotional perspective? Yeah. 

Megan: Without it making you just nuts.

Kris: That’s the greatest question and I appreciate that and I’ll try to articulate it to the best of my ability. 

It’s about mental fitness,

you know, it’s about creating those daily practices and for me, becoming very, very, um, aware of what my brain does on fear and anxiety.

Both: Mm.

Megan: Okay. So what does that look like for you?

Kris: So for me, in the beginning, you know, whenever we. We go through these really challenging times in our lives. I think it’s very normal for us to, to find ourselves in these paralyzing spirals of fear or anxiety. And I talk about this a lot in my new book, and really I think what our goal is, is to learn that all of our emotions serve a purpose.

We can’t amputate any of them and expected me to be whole. Which I have tried to do and it does not work. It makes things worse. And so by learning to brief befriend these parts of ourselves, we learn how to, to tend to them really. And so if I look at my emotions as two things, first and foremost, information that allows me to get curious.

’cause I am a, a lifelong learner, I’m hungry for knowledge. And so I go, oh, what do you have to teach me? Or, how do you like to be cared for? Or, why are you here in the first place? Is there something you’re signaling me to pay attention to? Interesting. That gives me a focus right off of the, the fight or flight response that’s coursing through my body.

I can redirect my energy into the curiosity and that hunger for knowledge.

Megan: That’s amazing.

Kris: So that’s the first part. Thank you. Um, and I think we can, we all do this in certain ways, but we, we get the invitation to do it with harder emotions too. Um, and then the second thing is understanding that emotions are, are also energy and energy needs to go somewhere.

And if it doesn’t go somewhere, it often goes deeper inside our tissues Yeah. into, driven into our body. And, and in, in some ways it can be a part of how we. Implode. And so if we know the energy has to move, that means I can’t run from my fear, I can’t run from my anxiety. I literally like, oh, here you are.

First and foremost, let me call out what it is. Let me name it. ’cause if I don’t name it, I don’t know how to tend to it. And then let me, you know, understand how to work with these emotions a bit so that I know what tools from my toolbox to use. Now I know that sounds very heady and we can get into the.

The practicality of that if you want to next, but that’s basically how I approach living with stage four cancer.

Megan: Wow. So

MIchael: I wanna make sure I understand. So you still have stage four cancer

Kris: Yes, yes,

MIchael: it, it could flare up at any time.

Kris: yes, yes. That’s true.

MIchael: Wow, that is amazing. 

Megan: It’s really amazing, especially 

MIchael: for two people that don’t deal well with uncertainty, you know, and the emotional component of that. 

And one of the things that we’ve been studying and learning of our health journey is trauma and what that does and how 

Kris: Mm-Hmm. 

MIchael: in our bodies.

And 

Megan: nervous system 

Kris: Yeah, 

Megan: nervous 

MIchael: system regulation. Yeah. All that kind of stuff. But has, has some of that stuff come up for you?

Kris: a hundred percent. You know, I think it came up more so, um, recently and, which is why I wrote this book. I, I wanna talk about uncertainty for a second. Go back. ’cause I really love that you guys are parking here. ’cause I think it is something that every single human struggles with and there’s a reason why, you know, from an evolutionary perspective.

We’re wired to survive. Anything that’s a threat to our survival create, puts us in fight or flight, freeze, fond or WTF mode, you know?

Megan: That’s my favorite mode. I know it well. We have a little condo down there.

Kris: That’s right. It puts us in that posture. And so we’re also wired for negativity. We have to work very hard to be positive because it goes against the grain of our biology and we have these well worn pathways. And so it doesn’t mean that we can’t do it, it’s just like any other habit they, we wanna build.

It just means it needs more focus and to, to use your beautiful branding, it needs our full focus.

Both: Hmm. Hmm. 

Kris: I don’t like uncertainty either, but I know how to breathe through it. I know how to say. Okay. Right now what’s happening is I am in anxiety. I’m ruminating, and so when I’m ruminating, I’m often telling myself a story about what may or may not happen in the future.

I’m not in the present moment with my new friends. I’m not in this moment where that fear is not actually happening. I am in a movie in my mind, and if I’m able to bring myself back to this present moment, I’m often able to like take that deep breath, come back to now realize I’m in a story, even investigate the facts.

Like, okay, Chris, you’re headed in for your 21 year scan. Of course there is a chance that cancer has turned on and that it’s aggressive, and that strange lump on your arm isn’t a fatty deposit that happens when you’re 52. You know it’s a new tumor in your soft tissue. Yes, there is a possibility that all of that is true, 

Both: Hmm 

Kris: but let’s look at the facts.

It’s been 21 years. We got a lot of data. Funnel, what are the chances that that is the case? Are they slim? Yes. And so we con continue to question these, these fears till I get to the point of like, yeah, you gotta, good point. Let’s go for a walk.

Megan: I love that. 

MIchael: Okay. I’ve gotta, I’ve gotta ask a follow on. 

Megan: Before we do that though, we gotta, we gotta talk about the book. We gotta just show people the book. Okay. ’cause we’re teasing people also friends, if you’re listening and you’re not watching, you can’t see this. But this book called I’m Not A Morning Person, is gorgeous.

It is such a beautiful book, and the subtitle is Braving Loss, grief and the big, messy emotions that happen when life falls apart. And clearly, Chris, you have a PhD in life falling apart and figuring out what to do about it. Um, and I think this has so much application for high achievers. So go to Amazon, go to wherever your favorite books are sold, and buy it down.

Buy, buy this book because this is going to give you a pathway through. Uncertainty and challenges in your life, because I don’t know if you’ve been alive long enough, you know, it doesn’t usually work out exactly like you planned. 

MIchael: No, 

Megan: that’s a, that’s a nice way of saying it. Okay, 

MIchael: continue. Okay. Back to my question.

some of the trauma-informed therapists Yeah. say that your state determines your story,

Kris: Hmm.

MIchael: but it seems like there’s a sense in which, like Tony Robbins would say, your story determines your state. 

Megan: And you mean like your emotional state? Your emotional state? 

MIchael: Yeah. So like in other words, if I’m an emotional state where I’m really agitated and anxious, then I’m gonna start creating a certain story around that.

But what you seem to be saying, and what I’ve also said is how I think can also influence my emotions. So how did those two things work together?

Kris: That’s such a great question, and thank you for bringing us back to that. I think. That it can happen in multiple ways, right? So I’m not a trauma expert, but I have experienced a lot of trauma in my life, and I love Dr. Gabor Mate’s 

Both: mm-Hmm. 

Kris: of how trauma works. Trauma isn’t something that happened to you, it’s something that happens inside of you.

Right? And so it, it’s, it can be from that in inciting incident. And for me, it, the trauma that I’ve experienced in my life have always come from moments of rupture, is what I call them. 

Both: Hmm. 

Kris: It’s the diagnosis. Um, it was, you know, my fa, my biological father, and I met each other later in life. Then our relationship dissolved.

Both: And 

Kris: And so that was a re-traumatizing experience of earlier abandonment 

Both: Wow. 

Kris: that hit right to the, you know, uh, the paternal wound. 

Both: Hmm. 

Kris: so what I have learned from those experiences is certainly from my experience with grief too, which by the way, I was, I was a newbie again, writing this book. Because even though I’ve been in the wellness world for 20 years and done a lot of my own work, first and foremost, grief was something that I did not wanna talk about and is something I did not wanna explore or put any energy into because it was terrifying to me because I thought that if I allowed it in, I would be overcome by it and I would drown.

Both: Hmm

Kris: Everything would fall apart. My relationships, my business, my ability to function in the world because it feels so hot inside and I think that trauma has a similar effect, 

Both: mm-Hmm. 

Kris: as something that my therapist said, just to go back to this idea of how does it work, when we think about trauma, when we think about, you know, what happens inside of us when we go through a traumatic experience? We apply that to things like grief. She said, you know, when the grief train pulls into the station, it brings all the cars,

Megan: so true.

Kris: it brings the past stuff. It brings the things that we think we’re over. It brings unresolved traumas. I think that it has, it’s this very divinely inspired experience that allows all of these things that maybe we weren’t ready to address, to come forward and, and get the tending that they need.

Right.

Megan: That’s so interesting. 

’cause I think that when unexpected negative things happen, traumas, um, you know, scary things, whatever our instinct is to fight it. And our instinct is to resist it. And, I think you already made such a great point about how our brain is wired from a survival standpoint and from a evolutionary standpoint that you know that that’s meant to protect us.

But in reality. such a redemptive aspect to those experiences. It’s like an invitation to heal and an invitation to wholeness. But it takes a lot of courage to be willing to embrace that because it’s, it usually gets worse before it gets better. I mean, grief, I think is such a great example of this and my experience with grief.

You know, the only way out is through. I remember having a therapist tell me that at some point, you know, like the only way out is through. There is no shortcut. There is no way to like be more productive at grief. And we will all experience grief intensely for most of us multiple times in our life. And yet there’s so much that has.

teach us. So, um, before we get really practical here, I’d love to just know two or three things that you feel like, you know, from your book and your, your work personally that grief has taught you.

Kris: So when we talk about grief, let’s open it up so people who are listening don’t think I haven’t lost somebody, so therefore I don’t need this conversation.

Both: Mm-Hmm.

Kris: can be the loss of your former sense of self grief can be the miscarriage. Grief can be the divorce. Grief can be the, the demotion. Grief can be comes in many shapes or forms ’cause we experience loss every single day in a million ways.

The loss of the day, the loss of when your children leave to go to college and you’re so excited that they went to the college of their dreams, but now you’re empty nesters. Right. Loss happens and it’s the, it’s we, I often say that, you know, through this experience of writing this book, I realize that we live in this grief, phobic, messy emotions averse society.

Megan: Hmm. That is so true.

Kris: We will talk about anything else. Right. That’s why I didn’t, that’s why it’s called, I’m not a morning person. I didn’t wanna talk about it. Okay.

But it’s M-O-U-R-N-I-N-G. Like not mourning, like good morning, but like yeah. grief.

Megan: Yeah. 

Kris: Yeah. And what I have found since then is to your beautiful point. The way out is through, you know, we, we can’t expect the rainbow and say, but hold the rain. 

Both: Yeah. 

Kris: if we talk about like, some of the things that I know are really popular to talk about on Instagram, like manifesting, everybody wants the life of their dreams.

Both: Mm-Hmm. 

Kris: Everybody wants to live it big, live it full, live it. Their best self, best life, right? 

So we talk about the things that can help them do that. And oftentimes those things are very positive and very aspirational and inspirational, and we’re, we’re dream chasers, right? And that’s wonderful. I I love that sugar.

It’s sugar and I love it. I would like more of it. Please, I want all the icing. But if you actually want those things, this is the work that gets you there because the addressing these things, which each and every one of us carry. You’re basically saying, I am willing to dissolve the barriers that keep me from fully alive living.

Megan: Mm. That’s a powerful concept, and one we don’t talk about enough. 

MIchael: It also takes courage because I think we live in a world where we’re always looking for the hack. Mm-Hmm. We’re always looking for the shortcut. Some way to microwave the experience and get to the end faster. And speaking for myself, been a slow thing.

And I’m still 

Kris: Yeah. 

MIchael: it. 

Both: Mm-Hmm. 

Kris: Oh gosh. I love that we’re gonna microwave the experience that is the best. And it’s so true. And I, I am too. Like I have my places where I’m still struggling with what we’re talking about. That’s why I think it’s a practice. So going back to some of the basic

things. 

Megan: Let’s talk about the five pillars of wellness that you 

talk 

Kris: Yeah. 

Megan: new book. I’m not a morning person.

Kris: Absolutely. So, um, so I teach a very simple approach to wellness and one of the chapters in the book is called Self-Care in the Storm. And throughout the book, the book is set up to explore the different experiences that you may face when life kicks you in the teeth. Hmm. Um, and it’s not just about grief.

I have a chapter on rage. Um, there’s a lot of talk about fear and anxiety. Like these are the shame. These are the cousins that come to the club with grief.

Megan: It’s the family reunion that nobody wants to go to.

Kris: Yeah. Nobody wants to go and they’re, they’re, you know, they’re very rambunctious cousins. Right. So I try to hit on the, the rollercoaster ride. but when we talk about self-care, I was talking to, there’s a great podcast I did last night called, Grief guys, and they’re all about guys, these three guys talking about their grief. And this is a conversation that men are not as likely to have as, as women are. And so, right, and, and we talked about how, you know, there’s this idea that not just for men that, but I think many of us hold this, especially the high achievers as you, you speak to, is that we gotta fix the problem.

We gotta fix it. Um, as opposed to like listening and showing up and being present and learning that our strength actually comes from our softness, not us armoring up. Right? And so as we were talking about self-care and it’s all. Approach it now is I teach what I call the five pillars of wellness. 

So they’re about being mindful about about what you’re eating, what you’re drinking, what you’re thinking, and how you’re resting and renewing.

And those pillars sit on a foundation of stress management. And the reason they sit on that foundation is that stress contributes to most, if not all of our popular chronic diseases. And so. That means we’re tending to the stress, right? So it doesn’t matter if I’m eating all the kale in the world, I’m going to yoga, I’m doing all the good things.

If I am mainlining stress and I’m filled with fear and anxiety on the regular, I am not getting the full benefit of the practices that I am exploring Now. I love Michael, how you said earlier, it’s not about hacking. We live in this hacking. Culture. Um, and what I always do and I try to do with my community, and it’s not always sexy, but it’s about coming back to the basics.

It’s like, I know you just read that latest article. Come back to the basics. Come back to the foundation and tend to these pillars more often than not. Are you getting enough sleep? Are you drinking water? Are you moving your body more often than not in a way that brings you joy. ’cause if it doesn’t bring you joy, you’re probably not gonna do it again tomorrow.

Both: Mm-Hmm.

Kris: So it’s very practical. It’s very simple stuff. I like to teach people to go slow. I call it turtle power because I went all or nothing and you know, I’m, I’m wired for that a little bit, but. Most of us, that doesn’t work. It’s not sustainable. And 21 years in, I probably would. I’m not doing what I did when I first started.

My knees have my, my knees have changed. Yes, my knees have changed and my needs have changed. So though that’s the basis of the pillars, but I, I wanna say that it’s the biggest advice that I can give is when we’re going through a difficult time, it’s very important to practice simple self-care, you know, nurturing these pillars, but in a way that you can actually do in a way where you’re feeling your, well just a little.

Because you probably won’t be able to do it as much as you want to because there’s a lot coming at you.

Maybe this is even for somebody who’s in a very challenging time in business, you know? But when you’re in those challenging times, you’ll be called to make the most important decisions of your life.

Period. How are you gonna enter that space? You’re gonna enter, enter it depleted. Are you gonna enter it with, you know, ha, half of your brain cells firing brain fog, fatigue. You can’t, you are going to make mistakes if you do it that way, and that is why self-care is so vital and important. It’s not fluff,

MIchael: Hmm. 

Kris: it’s prevention and it’s healthcare, and it’s the basis of your very survival in business and life.

MIchael: think that looks different for everybody? Self-care? Or are there some basics that everybody should incorporate?

Kris: I just realized I sound very intense. I need to take a sip of water.

Megan: Just gonna pay attention to what you’re drinking right now. He’s so focused to me. Yeah.

Kris: I get very passionate. Um, I think it looks different for everybody at different stages of life, but again, the basics are very practical and simple. Am I eating my fruits and vegetables? Am I eating fake food and processed food and refined food? Am I getting my, you know, I like to make it simple. I tell people, add before you subtract if you’re just starting this or if you’re coming back to it,

right?

Um, okay. You don’t have to change everything. You don’t have to throw out your favorite goodies, but can you add that smoothie in the morning,

every day without fail? Can you commit to that? More often than not, you, you, you make a little clean spot and then you wanna keep going, right? You, you go, oh, I actually feel really good when I do this.

So you begin to edge out what isn’t serving you as opposed to going all or nothing, which can lead to deprivation and self-sabotage.

 

Megan: Chris, that’s good. One of the things that I feel like when we’re coaching. When we’re talking to people that comes up a lot and this is such a critical part of the double win, is this self-care idea. And I, I think one of the biggest obstacles of that is most of us do just fine on self-care when we are in a season where things are just trucking along and you know, we got a lot of structure that we can maintain and all of that.

But when something goes haywire, maybe it. intense or difficult season or crisis in your business. Maybe it’s a health crisis, maybe, you know, if you’re a parent, you got a kid going off the rails, or your kid has a health crisis, or you move, or you know, any of the, the list is so long of what can disrupt the routines that enable us to maintain our self-care.

Obviously it’s, it’s all the more important during those seasons, but how do we do it when we feel like. We’re running a thousand miles an hour, or we don’t have the normal touch points that we need, or we feel really depleted and we don’t wanna go out for a walk or make the smoothie. Speaking for myself sometimes, you know, like, what?

How do we do that? Because I think that that it’s easy when times are good and everything’s working as it should, but that a lot of life, probably at least 50% or more, is not gonna be like that. So how do we maintain it in the harder times?

Kris: I think it’s a great question and I think the harder times are like always

so, maybe I was being generous there. It’s that one thing Maybe. Maybe it’s like 85% of the time is the harder time.

so you gotta make it simple. Yeah. Because if it’s not simple, it’s not sustainable. I think that’s the key to it. 

And I think the other thing is weaving it into your daily life as opposed to now I do morning routine, now I do fitness. Now I do this block. Right? So how can we weave it throughout our life? You’re doing that right now.

I’m assuming you both have glasses of water,

Megan: we do,

Kris: right? big, well, I have a You Cup. You have a nice refined glass cup.

Megan: I could get, is uh.

MIchael: I 

Megan: could, it is really water and I could get inside this cup if I wanted to,

probably. 

Kris: Yeah, you can’t, but so you have it with you throughout the

day, which is allowing you to stay hydrated, which is allowing you to not only help your brain, but also your gut, and which leads to your immune system, right? It’s the root of your immune system is your gut. 

So you are doing something, you’re modeling it right now.

That shows me how I can weave something through my day. 

I can weave something through my day by setting little alarms if I’m not good at doing it myself, which I’m not. ’cause when I’m writing, I’m writing, you know, it’s like, ugh, I have to pee. And I’m not even getting those, those sensations you are like crossing your legs more.

It’s like, dude, go Ted, the bathroom.

Megan: Why am I doing this to myself?

Kris: Why am I doing this? So you set these little alarms to just get up. Move. ’cause our bodies need that. You know, there’s a great saying, sitting is the new smoking and it’s true. You think about, there’s a recent study that came out that I wanna dive into about the, um, increases in cancer diagnosis of young people. Yes, I saw when we go, prob, I saw it this morning and I was like, okay, well we know why. So much of it, it’s, it’s not genetic. And then they’ve even said that it’s literally that our, our lifestyle practices, and we’ve known this forever, but I think it’s getting worse because of the sedentary lifestyle that we’re living as we get deeper and deeper into technology.

Both: Yep. So you find these little ways to incorporate self-care into your daily life, and you lower the bar.

Megan: I think that’s key. I, I love that because I think as high achievers. Especially, you know, in our community when we’re setting goals, like we’re raising the bar and that’s great, but usually in the moment when you’re setting goals or you’re thinking about the long term, you know, you’re not in the head space of the day to day.

Your kid had the stomach flu last night, or um, you got a call that, that your father who’s in assisted living fell for the sixth time in two weeks and you have to like rush to the er, you know, and I think that’s the normal life and. The normal life stuff and giving ourselves permission to lower the bar.

It’s like, what can you get over every day no matter what? You know, like that’s a great, a great place to start. And once you’ve done that, then you can always raise it. But I just don’t think we remember as high achievers. That is a, a great lever for consistency is lowering the bar. 

MIchael: love Yeah. So I consider myself a high achiever, Enneagram three.

Achiever’s my number one strength. And so for years I just stuffed my emotions. Self-care was always something that I would do once I got done with this project, you know, as opposed to preparing for the project and it’s just, it’s not sustainable. 

Both: Mm-Hmm, 

MIchael: for sure. And I think we, we, we’ve gotta see it as more essential 

Megan: Yeah. 

MIchael: Than that. 

Megan: Well, and I’ll tell you something Chris, and I bet you have a a thousand ideas like this, but yesterday it’s, you know, you’re in Florida, I know we’re in Tennessee. And so at the time of this recording, it’s just really become spring, everything gorgeous like on the planet, the planet in Tennessee is blooming.

It’s gorgeous. And I realized yesterday I had, um, a meeting and I thought. I didn’t get my walk in this morning. Something had happened in the morning, so I didn’t, I didn’t get to do that, and I was like, wait a second. I wear my tennis shoes to the office and I bring my. AirPods, which actually forgotten.

Had to walk home and get, I could just do this meeting on foot. And so I ended up going, um, on this walk nearby our office, talking to my assistant, you know, for an hour as it turned out, about all kinds of stuff. Checked all kinds of stuff off the list. But I’m like, in nature, I’m next to a river, there’s moss, there’s rocks.

Like it was so restorative. And I was like, we can get off Zoom people. We don’t have to be on Zoom all the time. We can actually put our shoes on and talk on the phone while we walk and. That was a way that it was like, I think the third option is very often where all the, the good stuff lies and it’s, it doesn’t have to be either.

I did my morning ritual and I did my walk during that time, or I didn’t exercise today. It’s like, well, I’m not like working out, but I can certainly go on a walk while I have a meeting in the middle of the day and that made my whole day. You know, so I think that’s maybe an example of kind of what we’re talking about.

Lower the bar, be flexible with it. 

MIchael: for jumping in here again, but I think, I think that sometimes It means intentionally slowing down.

Both: Yeah. That’s where I was gonna go.

MIchael: And so my word for the year, which by the way, I’ve never done before, you know, people have these words for the year. My word for the year is downshift,

Kris: Mm.

MIchael: which is like so contrary to my nature.

Both: Mm-Hmm. 

MIchael: But what that means for me, and this is like told some guys this and they were like, I could never do that. I’m trying to drive the speed limit. Which is so foreign to me. 

Megan: It’s like your spiritual work for the year. It’s 

MIchael: like, It’s 

like, yeah. It’s like my spiritual work to slow down and go the speed limit.

’cause I’m the guy that’s going 87 and constantly frustrated that the person that’s in front of me is going too slow. And it’s, it’s been a really good exercise, but, but you’re giving me a whole new perspective on this downshifting idea that I can expand that into other areas of my life. Yeah.

Kris: Oh, I love that. You know my word for the year, and I’ve done this a few years now and I’ve always tried to find a like. More sizzling word, and I’m like, really? That’s what you’re going for? As a high achiever, myself, my word continues to come back to contentment.

Megan: Ooh, 

MIchael: that’s a good one too. 

Megan: That’s some spiritual work.

Kris: Yeah. And, and I think one of the reasons why is, as I’ve been trying to articulate this, this work of self care and, and going to some of the harder, more challenging places. Each and every one of us, it’s a privilege to be alive. That is the one thing that I can tell you from not only living with cancer for 21 years, but having gone through a lot of loss, including my chosen father more recently.

It’s a privilege to be alive and while we have this incredible opportunity, for me, the goal is fully alive living. So fully alive living, which means that I’m joyful in my heart. I have the energy to do what I wanna do and to be with the people and the animals that I love. And ultimately that I enjoy my own company.

Both: Hmm.

Kris: I enjoy my own company because when I don’t enjoy my own company, no matter what I am doing and what I’m putting out in the world, there’s a disturbance in the force. Hmm. I’ll never be fully alive. I’ll never, never really see the privilege of being alive if I don’t enjoy time with me. And so that to me is really ultimately why we do what we’re doing.

When we are practicing these practices and when we’re being, as you said, brave enough and courageous enough to go to the places that scare us, is to heal those parts so that when we are hanging out with our ourselves, we’re having a good time. You know, it’s like, Hey, you’re my favorite buddy. I’d love to hang out with you.

Right? To me, that’s what being alive is about, and so. Of course, the relationships and so forth. Of course, a relationship to something bigger than you, but ultimately the relationship with you is fundamental. Mm-Hmm. And so going back to this idea of slowing down, I love that. I think it’s so important. I also think it’s really important in business.

You know, when my, when I decided to write this book, of course my publishers wanted me to write something else. They’re like, don’t write a grief book. These, those don’t sell. You know, and nobody, everybody needs it, but nobody wants to read it, you know? And of course I was like, okay, I guess I should write something that’s more upbeat and, you know, sugar and I, I couldn’t do it because I was struggling so much.

We were in the middle of a global pandemic. I’m coming up to my 20 year anniversary. My chosen father is dying. My business is struggling, and the reason why it was struggling was because I hadn’t life proofed it.

Both: Hmm

Kris: I had not life proofed it. I was about to get kicked in the teeth again in a big way. And if I wasn’t showing up and doing what was necessary, we weren’t meeting our goals.

Both: mm-Hmm. 

MIchael: say life proofed it, what do you mean?

Kris: It is, to me, it’s, it’s that process as, as of saying, me as the leader, if I were to step out, what would happen?

MIchael: Ah mm-Hmm.

Kris: What would happen? If I wasn’t here calling all the shots, and if I wasn’t here wrangling all the, the, the folks that need to get wrangled, and if I wasn’t here making all the things that need to get made, what would happen?

Would it fall apart if the answer is yes? That’s not a, you haven’t life proofed your business.

MIchael: Gotcha. Yeah, 

Kris: And 

so that for me was like definitely something that I struggled with for quite some time. And, but when this most recent experience happened, I put the, the focus. On life proofing it because to what you said before is we are gonna get knocked around and you can’t have the rainbow without the rain, and it’s gonna happen to each and every one of us.

And that sustainable life and sustainable business, it needs space. It needs the opportunity to grow deep roots instead of following multitude of shiny objects. It needs your time, your attention, your contentment. Um, I think that that’s what a full life and a full business both deserve.

 

Megan: love to know for you. What does it look like for you to get the double win winning at work and succeeding at life? And what are some of the things that you do to enable that to be true for you?

Kris: That’s a great question. You know, for me, winning at work and succeeding at life, um, I don’t see a difference between the two. I think for many people with personal brands, it’s hard. And so when I am joyful at work and joyful in my personal life, that’s when things are really flowing. 

Both: Mm-Hmm 

Kris: Um, my business is my baby.

My business is my child. My business is my rambunctious, rebellious teenager. You know what I mean? And so, um, I try to approach both my, my health and my business in similar ways,

Both: hmm.

Kris: which is, am I tending to the places that need tending to in a holistic way? Am I slowing down enough to really address the issues?

Am I creating a culture at work and, and a, a happy relationship at home that’s sustainable and that’s joyful. And to me, when I can go to bed at the end of the day and say, I did my best today. I know how I can, you know, bring more, uh, health and wellbeing into both of those worlds tomorrow, then, you know, I, I’m on the path.

It’s a practice. It’s, it’s just like everything else. 

Yeah.

Both: I love that. 

MIchael: Okay, I have one question. 

From my perspective, tell us about your new podcast.

Kris: Oh my goodness guys, I’m so excited to launch a podcast, which is going to be launching in May, and it’s called Made to Thrive, and I’ve never had my own podcast. Wow. So I’m a newbie. I know I’m very late to the party, but I’m here now, or almost here. I’m getting my dress on. I’m fashionably late, and, um, I’m gonna be talking about all of the different ways that we can thrive in our lives, and hopefully talking to incredible people like you.

I’d love both of you to come onto the podcast.

MIchael: love to. 

Both: Yeah, absolutely.

Kris: That would be such a treat because I wanna learn from people who are thriving and who have had those setbacks and those comebacks, and have that real life experience to help us navigate, um, the, the good times and the difficult times.

Megan: Fantastic. I love that. And I love the name of it. Okay, so as a reminder, go get Chris’s new book. I’m not a morning person. Wherever books are sold, and looking at my notes here. Chris carr.com is your website so people can find out about all the great things that you there. Car with two Rs.

Car with two R. That’s with the 

Both: K. 

Megan: With the K, yep. 

Kris: Thank you guys. 

Megan: else that we need to tell the people?

Kris: No, you are so magnificent. 

I could not have enjoyed this time with you both more.

Thank you for having me. 

MIchael: Chris, thank you for coming on. Yeah, you’ve been delightful. 

Megan: Thank you.

Kris: Thanks guys.

Megan: I’m blown away

by that conversation. First of all, I just felt like our hearts were totally connected the whole time.

It’s such a, a, heart-centered conversation, and there were so many light bulbs as she’s talking about what it’s like to have.

Not

only survived stage four cancer for 21 years, but thrived, as she says with it. I mean, the, the takeaways for us as high achievers that she gave are simultaneously so profound and so practical.

MIchael: I think this is so good for high achievers because we have a lot of emotions that we stuff the pursuit of our goals. Mm-Hmm. And what she talks about. Is the

interplay between our health and our emotional state. 

Megan: Yeah. 

MIchael: She says,

it’s not only important to

watch what you eat, but to pay attention to what’s eating you.

Megan: Yeah. That’s a great,

yeah, that’s a great

MIchael: line.

Megan: One of the, my favorite parts of the conversation was talking about. Uncertainty because, can you imagine anything more uncertain than having stage four cancer?

MIchael: I can’t imagine

Megan: for

21 years. And I just think that that’s something

As high achievers, if we’re pursuing big goals, that like automatically puts us in

uncertainty.

’cause we’re out of our comfort zone. We’re as far as we’ve ever been, we’re doing something we’ve never done. Not to mention all the hashtag real life stuff that happens, left, right, and center. And so I think this conversation will inspire you, encourage you. And empower you on your journey to do big things in your life. 

MIchael: Well guys, hope you’ve enjoyed this conversation as much as we have.

lemme just encourage you, if you haven’t already, subscribe to this podcast. And leave us a five star review, but only if you feel like the content is valuable. But that will help us to get noticed by other people to spread the word. And we think this is a message that everybody needs. This whole pursuit of the double win where you can win at work and succeed at life.

We’ll see you next week.