SUMMER REPLAY: DONALD MILLER: Edit Your Life for Success

Episode Transcript

Note: Transcript is AI-generated and may contain errors. Please refer to the episode audio or video for exact quotes.

[00:00:00] Megan: Hey everybody, it’s Megan Hyatt Miller here, and hey, just a reminder, The Double Win Show is taking the summer off. Hope you have great things planned for the summer, but listen, we will be back in early September with some brand new episodes that are fantastic. We can’t wait to share those with you. In the meantime, we’re gonna be sharing some of our very best episodes from the past few years.

[00:00:20] You’re not gonna wanna miss them, and I bet you haven’t listened to all of these yet, but you’re gonna want to. So here’s one of those now.

[00:00:30] Michael: Hi, I’m Michael Hyatt.

[00:00:31] Megan: And I’m Megan Hyatt Miller.

[00:00:32] Michael: And this is The Double Win, a show about winning at work and succeeding at life.

[00:00:37] Megan: You know, here at our company, Full Focus, we’ve identified nine life domains that you can cultivate to help you be the person that you wanna be and live the life that you wanna live.

[00:00:45] Those are body, mind, spirit, love, family, community, money, work, and hobbies.

[00:00:53] Michael: Our guest today is Donald Miller, who probably the most important thing I could say is that he’s my dear friend. I’ve known him for over 20 years. I was his publisher at Thomas Nelson Publishers. I had the privilege of publishing the book Blue Like Jazz, which went on to become a New York Times bestseller.

[00:01:11] Don is one of the best storytellers I’ve ever met. He wrote a book called Building a Story Brand. This is when he started to pivot from writing memoirs to helping business people tell better stories about their businesses, and more recently, he’s, uh, talked about what you can do using a story framework to edit your own life and begin to improve it so that you’re living a better story.

[00:01:37] And so I’m excited for what you guys are gonna learn from Don today. We had a far-ranging conversation about a lot of different topics, and I think you’re gonna love this.

[00:01:53] Don, welcome to the show.

[00:01:54] Donald: Great to be here. Thanks for having me, guys. We’re so

[00:01:55] Megan: excited about this.

[00:01:56] Donald: Yeah.

[00:01:57] Michael: I have been so looking forward to it. I’ve been looking forward to it. Yeah, me too. Yeah. ‘Cause I know we have immense rapport, and as already mentioned in the intro, we’ve known each other since forever.

[00:02:05] So-

[00:02:06] Donald: It’s gotta be 20

[00:02:07] Michael: 20 years

[00:02:08] Donald: 25 years, close to that, right? Wow.

[00:02:10] Michael: Yeah.

[00:02:10] Megan: Y’all were kids. I wasn’t even born then.

[00:02:12] Michael: I know. I mean, it goes all the way back to Blue Like Jazz. Um, but so it’s been a, it’s been a while, and we’ve been friends, we’ve been in a professional relationship. You know, it’s just been awesome, um, to kinda see your journey.

[00:02:26] It’s been inspiring to me, and that’s kind of what we wanna talk about today-

[00:02:30] Megan: Yeah …

[00:02:30] Michael: is how that changed. Because, as you know, we’re all about the double win here, winning at work and succeeding at life. But my guess is that for you, there was probably a time back when, when you were a bachelor… By the way, how old were you when you got married?

[00:02:42] Donald: 42. 42.

[00:02:43] Michael: So you had a long period as a bachelor, and my guess is that you worked differently then- Yes … than you work now.

[00:02:49] Donald: Yes. Well, I work now.

[00:02:55] There… You kind of kidding, but not really.

[00:02:57] Megan: Okay, say more about that. I,

[00:02:58] Donald: I literally think I get more done with less time now than I did then, because, you know, it, it’s kinda like if your flight leaves at 2:00 in the afternoon, you’re gonna miss it, but if it’s at 6:00 in the morning, you’ll make it. You know, there’s that sort of- Wow

[00:03:10] feeling of, of, uh, you know, it… I’ve gotta get up early, I’ve gotta get this done. You only have two hours. I mean, this morning I had an hour and 15 minutes to write before this meeting, and I got more done than if you would’ve given me four hours. You know what I mean? Wow. Because you’re taking it seriously.

[00:03:25] And, uh, as a bachelor, I would wake up, and depending on what sort of mood I was in, I would go to whatever coffee shop where I, quote, “believe the words were”- … and, uh, try to find a- That’s

[00:03:37] Megan: amazing.

[00:03:37] Donald: You know, it was just ridiculous. And now it’s like, “No, you have to get… You have to start writing now, and you have- Yeah

[00:03:42] you have one hour,” and, you know, I, I get it done. So having a, you know, being married was the first evolution of sort of taking away a slot of time, making you focus and get done in the time you have. And then a child took it all away. I mean, we- you know, I’ve got 60 seconds a, a week to, to actually get Well, I-

[00:04:03] to get all the work done …

[00:04:04] Michael: I can remember back in the day when I was your publisher, and y- you know, we struggled to get manuscripts from you some.

[00:04:12] Donald: Oh, I know. I, I used to- In those early days … I used to say, “Well, they’re not threatening to sue me yet, so I think

[00:04:19] Megan: I have more time.” That’s, that’s a bar. That’s a bar you can have.

[00:04:20] Donald: But of course, I noticed that the editors over time would come back and say, “This is great.” I’m like, “Well, you haven’t seen… I haven’t turned it in yet.”

[00:04:28] Michael: Well, you’re immensely talented, which made us be patient, ’cause we knew that it was gonna be great when we got it.

[00:04:34] But you have become so productive, like, in the last, I don’t know, 10, 15 years. Five

[00:04:40] Donald: years. Five, five year… It’s been a book a year- Wow … for a while.

[00:04:44] Michael: Yeah. I mean, every time I turn around, you’re writing a new book.

[00:04:48] Donald: Yeah.

[00:04:48] Michael: And y- and the amazing thing is, is you’re kinda pivoting a little bit. You’ve written on a lot of different things.

[00:04:54] But again, just to your point, it’s amazing how sort of boundaries and constraints-

[00:05:00] Donald: That’s

[00:05:00] Michael: right … force creativity.

[00:05:01] Donald: That r- that… Yeah, and production-

[00:05:03] Michael: Yeah …

[00:05:03] Donald: you know, if you wanna get it done. And also habits. I think a lot of that is I got into the habit of getting up, leaving the house, literally ordering the same cup of coffee.

[00:05:13] When I go to Stay Golden, I order the same thing every day. If that changes or if I’m ordering to go, I have to bypass the line, go into the kitchen and tell Roger not to cook that. Because he’ll see me and he’ll start cooking. Wow. It’s that, it’s that much of a habit to show up at this time and do this work.

[00:05:32] And, uh, and I think it’s the habit that obviously I credit with the productivity more than anything else.

[00:05:38] Michael: Is it five days a week?

[00:05:39] Donald: It’s, uh, yeah, it’s, it’s, it tries to be five days a week. Uh, you know, if I’ve got a morning meeting, you know- Mm-hmm … this morning I had a meeting, uh, then that day is… But even if I have a morning meeting, th- you know, today was 9:00, so from 7:00 to 8:30 I was able to get some writing done.

[00:05:55] And if you can establish, any… I tell this to every writer, a young writer, “If you wanna be a writer, you need to pick a time, and you need to be at the same place every day because your body will just get used to it.” Mm-hmm. “And your body will perform those tasks without-” Mm. “… even thinking about it.” And so it’s, it’s true with working out, it’s true with writing as well.

[00:06:13] Megan: So what’s a typical day like for you?

[00:06:16] Michael: I literally, the, you know, tell me that we’re related without telling me we’re related. But I was gonna ask that very

[00:06:23] Megan: question. The telepathy is real.

[00:06:24] Donald: Yeah. Okay, so can I walk you through a perfect day? ‘Cause they’re often- Yeah …

[00:06:27] Megan: interrupted. Yeah. So, so tell us a perfect day, and then tell us what, like, a real day.

[00:06:31] Yeah. How, how is that different? We wanna make the people feel better, you know? Yeah, what does it come off the

[00:06:34] Michael: tracks?

[00:06:35] Donald: Yeah, so 6:00 AM, uh, usually waking up in the summer because the sunlight is, you know, just creeping through every crack, and that’s getting me up. Uh, I, without waking my wife, I go downstairs- Mm

[00:06:49] into the garage. I get a cold plunge in.

[00:06:52] Megan: Oh, wow.

[00:06:53] Donald: Three minutes at 45 degrees.

[00:06:54] Megan: And wait, this is your perfect day?

[00:06:56] Donald: This is a perfect day.

[00:06:56] Megan: Okay. So-

[00:06:57] Donald: I’ve done

[00:06:57] Megan: that- We’re gonna start off

[00:06:59] Donald: freezing. I’ve done that. That’s- With the exception of the few days that I’ve been out of town, less than 10 days in the last six months, I’ve not done that.

[00:07:06] Wow.

[00:07:06] Michael: Okay, gotta stop. Why do you do that? Why do you do this crazy thing? Uh,

[00:07:09] Donald: yeah. W- well, you can get into the neuroscience of it. It, it creates a dopamine release- Mm-hmm … and so it, it just puts you immediately in a good mood. But I’ll describe it to you this way. I walk down those stairs to the garage not wanting to work out, not wanting- Sure

[00:07:25] to cold plunge, really just wanting to go back to bed.

[00:07:27] Michael: Yeah. Me

[00:07:28] Donald: too. I, I have a ritual. Uh, the cold plunge, actually, the water evaporates over time. Mm. So you lose about an inch every two weeks. And so to counter that, I started just grabbing one glass of water and pouring it in the cold plunge before I cold plunge.

[00:07:43] That way, you know, just to sort of counter the evaporation. But I turn that into a morning ritual where I will close my eyes and imagine some sort of characteristic that I want to pour into myself.

[00:07:53] Megan: Ooh.

[00:07:54] Donald: Ooh. And then I pour the wa- close my eyes, and I hear the water going in, and I try to imagine kindness or patience or discipline.

[00:08:00] So what is it

[00:08:01] Megan: right now? What are you working on?

[00:08:02] Donald: Uh, w- this, it’s, right now it’s for other people, actually. Okay. There’s a, a buddy who had a heart attack- Mm … and so I’m pouring good health into, as I pray.

[00:08:09] Megan: Wow.

[00:08:10] Donald: You know, uh, that sort of thing. So it’s a, it’s a silly ritual, but I re- I listened to a podcast about the power of rituals- Uh-huh

[00:08:17] and it, it convinced me. All these great athletes use rituals. Mm-hmm. Astronauts use rituals, uh, just to get their head in the right place. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So that’s the very first thing. 45 degrees. It was 35 degrees. Whoo. But 45 degrees. Did you have

[00:08:31] Michael: to work up to that?

[00:08:33] Donald: Uh, probably. I, I started in the pool over winter- And my record was, it was negative one degrees- Yeah

[00:08:40] outside, and it was 35 degrees in the pool, and I did 17 minutes, which was a- Oh my goodness What? … really dumb, very dumb thing to do. Wow.

[00:08:49] Michael: I, I think I’d start with 10 seconds.

[00:08:51] Donald: I wanted to. Uh, but I, you know, I did that, and then, and now it’s, I limit my… I make myself get out after three minutes. I won’t stay in any longer because it’s honestly just not great for your heart to- Mm

[00:09:02] be in cold

[00:09:03] Michael: for that long. H- having done it this long, though, um, in three minutes, like, is the first few seconds, is it like, “Ugh”?

[00:09:09] Donald: T- maybe, maybe two seconds. And on a hot day, it’s actually the whole thing is just refreshing.

[00:09:14] Megan: Wow.

[00:09:15] Donald: Yeah. Okay. I mean, you, you get- I gotta explore this … you, you get adapted to it. But it’s a 400% increase in dopamine.

[00:09:20] There is probably not a drug, legal or illegal, that will do that.

[00:09:25] Megan: Huh.

[00:09:25] Donald: Uh, and immediately, like, I would say within 60 seconds, I am in a good mood and I want to work out That’s amazing … and it, it happens, it happens, by the, by the end of the three minutes, I’m in a good mood for four or five hours. Hmm. Now, you can overdo that.

[00:09:42] You have to be careful. Your brain will actually run out of dopamine, and you can get depressed. You have to- Hmm … really be careful with it. Wow. So I do three minutes, I get out. I, I, yesterday I did it twice, but I shouldn’t have. You know, most days I’ll do it once. Uh, and really, it should be every other day.

[00:09:58] Okay.

[00:09:59] Michael: So is, is this like the hard thing that you do that makes everything else easier?

[00:10:02] Donald: You know, they say that. I, I don’t, I don’t, I don’t feel that.

[00:10:06] Michael: Hmm.

[00:10:06] Donald: You know, hard things are still hard things. Mm-hmm. You know, it’s not like I got in cold water, so now I can, you know, go lay off somebody. You know, it’s not, it’s like-

[00:10:15] that’s not, that isn’t happening for me. Wouldn’t that be cool? I know. Hard, hard things are very contextual. Yeah. This one

[00:10:20] Michael: is

[00:10:20] Donald: hard, and so is that one. Yeah, yeah. Uh, but the, the benefits of working out, I mean, just getting a 10 to 15-minute resistance training workout- Mm-hmm … after that cold plunge is easy, and so I’ll do that.

[00:10:35] Michael: And that’s not- Do you do cardio, too? Sorry.

[00:10:36] Donald: I do five minutes on a rebounder, five minutes on a bike, five minutes on a rower, and five minutes on a heavy bag. So it’s a 20-minute cardio workout, about three days a week. And then, uh, the same with resistance training, and I just use bands-

[00:10:49] Megan: Nice … for

[00:10:49] Donald: that. That’s great.

[00:10:50] Megan: And that wasn’t always part of your life, right?

[00:10:52] Donald: No.

[00:10:53] Megan: Like, if you go in the way back machine.

[00:10:55] Donald: In the way back machine, I weighed nearly 400 pounds. Yeah. So it was definitely- Which is astonishing to me … I worked harder to get out of bed than I did- Yeah … to work out.

[00:11:01] Megan: Yeah, yeah.

[00:11:03] Donald: At 7:00 AM, a little before 7:00 AM, I’m coming up out of the garage.

[00:11:07] I’ve done a short workout and a cold plunge. I feel much, much better-

[00:11:12] Michael: Hmm …

[00:11:12] Donald: about the day. It’s better than caffeine. It’s, there’s no negative side effect. I heat up a glass of milk and pour it into a sippy cup, and I go into Emmaline’s room, and I’m the guy who wakes her up first thing- Aw … in the morning.

[00:11:25] That’s so cute. And how old is she? She’s about to be three.

[00:11:28] Megan: Oh, such a

[00:11:29] Donald: great age. Yeah, she’s about to turn three. I have a grandson that age. She’s ridiculously cute.

[00:11:32] Megan: Oh.

[00:11:32] Donald: Uh, and I wake her up, and then that gives Betsy about 15 to 20 minutes to sort of slowly get up and- Mm-hmm … that sort of thing. Then she comes in the room, starts making breakfast, and I leave.

[00:11:45] Megan: Mm-hmm.

[00:11:45] Donald: That’s when I leave. So I leave, I go, I get, uh, from one to three hours worth of writing done. We try to make the first appointment of the day after 11:00 AM-

[00:11:56] Megan: Mm-hmm …

[00:11:57] Donald: because writing is just the most important thing for me to do for my- Yeah … own company. And if I, if I get two, even two hours of writing done, uh, three to four days a week, I can write a book in a year.

[00:12:09] Megan: Hmm.

[00:12:09] Donald: And-

[00:12:10] Megan: So are you eating anything? I’m just doing the math.

[00:12:12] Donald: Yeah, I do. Like, do you

[00:12:13] Megan: eat before 11

[00:12:14] or no?

[00:12:14] Donald: I eat, uh, I do. I, I didn’t used to- Hmm … but these studies have come out saying- Yeah … how bad intermittent fasting is for your heart.

[00:12:21] Megan: Yeah.

[00:12:21] Donald: And it’s, like, 90% more likely to get some sort of heart- Wow

[00:12:25] Megan: Yeah

[00:12:25] Donald: uh, a defect or something like that, so I stopped doing that, and I, I eat four eggs in the morning. Uh, I eat them on top of biscuits and gravy, but I don’t eat the biscuits and gravy. This is how ridiculous this actually is. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Okay, you gotta explain that. I want the option. I want the option.

[00:12:40] So this morning I ate four eggs, 32 grams of protein, and one bite of biscuit. So Roger, the chef at Stay Golden, has now started making me half of a biscuit. I get charged the same, but I’m like, “Roger, I just throw this away.” Yeah. He goes, “Well, I’ll make you a half.” And he makes me a half of a biscuit. So you just want, like, a little bite- I gotta have the taste

[00:12:56] and that’s enough. I gotta have the taste. If you take it away from me, I’m gonna rob the kitchen. So… See,

[00:13:02] Michael: I,

[00:13:03] Donald: I think this- Oh my gosh … this is perfect for me. This is a psychological thing there. Yeah. I don’t know

[00:13:05] Megan: what it is.

[00:13:06] He loves some biscuits and gravy too.

[00:13:07] Michael: Oh, I do, and I- Oh, how could you not? How could you not?

[00:13:09] But I just know that too much of that’s not good for you. Oh,

[00:13:10] Donald: gosh, no. It’s

[00:13:11] Michael: awful. So I, I mean, maybe once a month I’ll, I’ll get something, like when we’re, we’re in Winchester.

[00:13:15] Megan: Yeah, at the lake.

[00:13:15] Michael: But-

[00:13:16] Megan: Yeah …

[00:13:17] Donald: so I’ll do that, and then, um, that, if I finish that, if I finish my writing and I get four or five pages written or, or six or 10 pages edited, I feel good about the entire day.

[00:13:28] Mm. There’s nothing else I, I could st- not work the rest of the day and I would still feel good. There’s something in that of all the work I have to do, writing feels like the most important. Mm. And if you didn’t get that done, you didn’t contribute what only you can contribute to, today. Mm. So writing is absolute priority.

[00:13:44] It’s also the thing that if you look at everything I do, if you, if I don’t do the writing, the company dies two years from now.

[00:13:50] Megan: Mm.

[00:13:51] Donald: And so I’m… My job as the leader is to keep us alive two years from now. Mm-hmm. And always be the f- the guy furthest out in front- Mm-hmm … kinda building whatever it is that needs to be built.

[00:14:02] So I do that, and then, uh, really, you know, from the… Sometimes there’s a meeting at 11:00, and I’ll go over to the office. We have an office here in Nashville that has shared workspace, a private conference room, and then four different media sets to do livestreams and things like that on. So constantly in and out of that office.

[00:14:22] Uh, I’ll have meetings, Zoom meetings, things like that. Uh, I… About 4:00 usually I am winding down, heading home. And then from 4:30 or so through the end of the night, it is time with family. Oh, and- And I, I don’t have my phone. I don’t look at it. It takes zero discipline.

[00:14:43] Megan: Where does your phone go? Like, how do you do that?

[00:14:45] Who

[00:14:45] Donald: knows? I mean, it, you know, it’s, uh, in the entry.

[00:14:47] Megan: Yeah.

[00:14:48] Donald: Uh, and I, I truly don’t have any interest in looking at it. Of, I leave work, work’s over for me at 4:30. I don’t think about it. And I, I learned a long time ago that I get more done the following morning if I stop. That, and it’s, it… You know, I wish I could say it’s because I’m so devoted to my family.

[00:15:07] I mean, that’s a part of it. Mm. That’s the icing on the cake. But the reality is I just get way more done if I stop at 4:30-

[00:15:14] Megan: Yeah …

[00:15:14] Donald: and don’t keep working. Yeah. And then the next morning I’m recharged and can get some writing done. Wow. So that’s a, a day in the life. Uh, sometimes interrupted by travel. We try not to travel more than once a month.

[00:15:25] Mm-hmm. So on most nights I’m home.

[00:15:27] Michael: Okay, I’m a- asking this for a friend. Um- But do you ever get in a place where you’re, like, super creative? And I’m kind of in this place right now. And, like, I, I have a really hard time turning it off at night. I’m just, like, thinking about… Like, last night, I probably laid in bed awake for three hours.

[00:15:44] Now, it’s not anxiety, you know, where I’m catastrophizing about the future and- Yeah … feeling anxious, which, you know, is something I’ve struggled with and am getting a handle on finally. But this is just more creative. Right. Like, all these things I wanna do, and I’m thinking about projects. Do you, have you ever gone through that?

[00:15:58] Donald: I have, and it’s actually, to me, I think it’s a gift. I, I, I th- this creativity’s gonna come when it wants.

[00:16:03] Megan: Mm-hmm.

[00:16:03] Donald: And it’s not gonna obey your schedule. I do believe in schedule. The more often you’re there at 7:00 AM, the more you’re gonna get done. Yep. But at the same time, if you’ve got an idea… You know, I just wrote a speech at 2:00 in the morning- That’s coming up in September, and I, I think it’ll be, you know, my best, the best presentation I’ve ever given.

[00:16:23] Megan: Hmm.

[00:16:23] Donald: And it was given to me at 2:00 in the morning. Yeah. And you just kinda sit there- We gotta take it … and stare at the ceiling and go, “Okay, guess we’re downloading this right now.” And, uh, you know, I, I, I still, I think it’s a gift ’cause, you know, when you have inspiration like that, you feel like you’re partnering with God to do something.

[00:16:39] Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know, a lot of creatives feel like they’re channeling something. Or something

[00:16:42] Megan: magical kind of happening.

[00:16:43] Donald: Yeah, and you can either gut it out or get it in a download. Mm-hmm. And it’s certainly a lot easier to get it in a download. Yeah. I’ll take it. If it’s 2:00 in the morning, I’m up.

[00:16:51] Let’s go. Yeah,

[00:16:51] Megan: yeah. I,

[00:16:52] Michael: I have another question, too. Is, is there any kind of spiritual practice that, that you do, and does that occur sometime in your day, or?

[00:16:58] Donald: Yeah, the, I mean, my, my faith has gotten very, very simple. It hasn’t changed. It’s, but it’s gotten very, very simple- Hmm … in the s- in the, the sense that I think there is a force that, uh, wants to destroy, uh, people and their self-esteem and-

[00:17:14] Megan: Hmm

[00:17:14] Donald: and there’s a force that, uh, believes that people matters, matter, and I wanna be on the right team. That, that’s as simple as it really gets. Wow. Hmm. Uh, and so when I see destructive, when I hear destructive thoughts in my own brain, I just say, “Hey, that’s the wrong team.” Mm-hmm. You know, we’re not gonna listen to that.

[00:17:31] That’s about as, that’s about where my faith is right now. Hmm. And so in my prayer, I’m praying, “God, help, help the words that I write.” Defend the right team. Mm-hmm. You know? I just wanna be on the right team, and that team, I think, builds people up, believes in people, believes that they matter- Right … believes that their story matters.

[00:17:48] Michael: You’re so

[00:17:48] Donald: good at that. And wanna encourage them to do that. Yeah. And then, uh, try to recognize when, “Hey, I think you’re actually playing for the wrong team here.” Mm. Yeah. Mm. “You know? And let’s, let’s cut that out.” So that, that’s about it.

[00:17:58] Megan: I love that. So outside of work and family, do you have hobbies or personal interests-

[00:18:04] that you’re pursuing?

[00:18:06] Donald: Uh, I have a, a group of buddies, we call ourselves The Lions. Uh, and we fish once a year. We get together in Nashville for the national championship, the College Football- Mm … National Championship. And then we do smaller meetings. I have a listening… I call it the listening parlor at my home.

[00:18:23] It has a hi-fi stereo system. People bring their records. We do once a quarter, we… You just bring some records and, and we’ll- Oh, fun … spend four or five hours just listening to music.

[00:18:32] Megan: Yeah.

[00:18:32] Donald: We’re keeping a running list of every song that we’ve played so that you can go back and go- Oh … “Wait, what was that song by Frank Sinatra?”

[00:18:37] Oh, I love that. You know, that sort of thing. Very cool. And that’s, that’s been, that’s been really fun, and I would say that’s p- that’s about the only hobbies that I’ve got- Yeah … is just getting together with those guys.

[00:18:46] Megan: Um, is that a struggle for you to have interests outside of work?

[00:18:49] Donald: It is.

[00:18:50] Megan: Yeah.

[00:18:50] Donald: Yeah, it’s a struggle.

[00:18:51] Um, I do it, and I feel like we’ve, we’ve nailed it. Uh, but yeah, there’s no golf. There’s no- Yeah. I’m not a cyclist anymore.

[00:19:00] Megan: Yeah.

[00:19:00] Donald: You know, there’s none of that. There’s no time for that.

[00:19:02] Megan: Is that something that you wanna do in the future? Or like, I, I find it really interesting, my dad and I talk about this a lot because he’s at a stage of life with no kids at home, although our family’s been living with him temporarily while we’re renovating- Right

[00:19:13] our house, so- Yeah … you know, we’re kinda back. Um, but mostly, you know, you have a lot of discretionary time. I have five kids. I have very little discretionary time because of that, and I think it’s interesting to consider hobbies at different seasons. Right. You know, you and I don’t have as much time as he does, and so I, I love talking to people about what does that look like in this season and, you know.

[00:19:34] Donald: Yeah, I feel self-conscious- What could I do? … saying it. I don’t have hobbies. Yeah. I don’t have… You know, if you look, if, um- If, if your life were like a parking lot and every 15 minutes were a space- Yeah … I’m double parked in every space. There’s just, there’s zero, there’s no margin-

[00:19:49] Megan: Yeah …

[00:19:50] Donald: uh, at all.

[00:19:51] Megan: Mm.

[00:19:51] Donald: Uh, I just, a buddy of mine’s playing a show in New York City, and I got so excited ’cause he’s selling out these shows and his career’s on the rise, and I went and bought four tickets and I said, “Betsy, we’ll just figure out what other couple to take with us.”

[00:20:04] Yeah. And she emailed back and said, “You realize you’re speaking on that night?” Oh, no. It’s like-

[00:20:10] Michael: Ugh …

[00:20:10] Donald: I hate this. Yeah. I mean, there’s just no, you know- This

[00:20:12] Michael: is why I don’t handle my own calendar.

[00:20:14] Donald: Yeah. Then when, and honestly, that’s the problem. I handled my own calendar once and then, uh- Yeah Yeah,

[00:20:18] Michael: me too …

[00:20:18] Donald: it

[00:20:18] Michael: went

[00:20:19] Donald: rogue.

[00:20:19] Nothing good happens. Yeah, so.

[00:20:20] Michael: Whenever I make an exception, I screw it up.

[00:20:22] Donald: Yeah, that’s exactly it. Yeah. And, and so, no, uh, you know, I would say that’s a, if, if I’m allowed to complain, if I’m allowed to go to HR and say I’m being overworked- … uh, that would be it. You know, just- You work

[00:20:33] Michael: for a- … double booked … for a really driving boss.

[00:20:38] Donald: For myself. It’s funny, you look so much older- I hope that’s not true for everybody … looking at the light. Yeah, yeah. That’s exactly it.

[00:20:43] Michael: You know, business isn’t easy, and you run a sizable business. Um, how many teammates do you have now?

[00:20:49] Donald: 30.

[00:20:50] Michael: 30.

[00:20:50] Donald: Mm. Yeah, it’s really closer to 35, I think, but-

[00:20:52] Michael: Yeah …

[00:20:52] Donald: yeah, 30.

[00:20:53] Michael: So that brings with it a lot of stress.

[00:20:57] And so how do you kind of manage the stress? How do you think about that? Do you feel that stress? Does

[00:21:02] Donald: it- I, yeah, I do. Uh, you know, especially when things aren’t going well. Mm-hmm. I think a lot of leaders in my position are good at worrying way before they actually need to.

[00:21:13] Michael: Oh, we’re … We have a master’s degree in this.

[00:21:15] Megan: Yeah. Well, I- PhD … I was gonna say, uh, maybe a double PhD. Yeah.

[00:21:18] Donald: I mean, I think in a way it’s a gift-

[00:21:20] Megan: Yeah …

[00:21:20] Donald: because it’s how you keep an organization alive. I can’t remember, who was it who said, “Only the paranoid survive”? Whoever used to run IBM. Wrote a book called Only The Paranoid Survive, and as soon as I saw the title, I went, “Uh-huh.

[00:21:30] Yeah.” You know? Yeah. No argument there. Uh, and so yeah, I, I, I, I do f- feel a lot of stress, and, uh, and a- a- I’m actually seeing a therapist now that, uh, is helping me understand that I, I don’t actually feel stress. Yeah. Uh, and that’s a problem, you know? By the way-

[00:21:49] Megan: Interesting …

[00:21:50] Donald: the three of us see the same therapist.

[00:21:52] Well, I didn’t wanna say it out loud. I didn’t know if that

[00:21:54] Megan: was allowed. Well, we had a really funny experience. John

[00:21:56] Donald: and I- We’re keeping her in business.

[00:21:57] Megan: I know, we really are. We refer so many people. You and I ran into each other in the therapy waiting office.

[00:22:02] Donald: And what we should

[00:22:03] Megan: have done

[00:22:03] Donald: is said, “Look, I’ll just be a fly on the wall and pay half.”

[00:22:05] Megan: That’s right. Exactly. Maybe we could do like a group session. We deal with the same thing. I know. Exactly. It’s so true. Yeah. We, we, we definitely have, uh, anxiety that we deal with. I’m looking at you, Dad, while we’re talking about this.

[00:22:15] Michael: Yeah, I mean, totally. I mean, I, I went through a period where I had a little health scare starting back in, uh, in November and, uh, it caused me the most anxiety I’ve ever felt.

[00:22:25] Megan: Yeah.

[00:22:25] Michael: And I never admitted to myself that I ever struggled with anxiety. Now I realize it’s probably something I’ve struggled with my entire adult life. Mm-hmm. But it gave me the tools to kinda deal with it. Yeah. But it’s, it’s … It comes and goes, but now I feel like I’ve got some tools to effectively manage it.

[00:22:39] Donald: Yeah. Yeah. I, I, there are some things that I can do. I can not get on airplanes If I don’t- Oh … get on airplanes, my anxiety level is much lower.

[00:22:48] Megan: What is it about airplanes? Is

[00:22:49] Donald: it- The fact that you have to pause your entire productivity schedule to go to Topeka and give a one-hour speech- Yeah … and then come back without a night’s sleep.

[00:22:58] Megan: Yeah.

[00:22:58] Donald: So it’s basically, let me give up a week of this massive task list so that I can go speak somewhere for 45 minutes. Yeah,

[00:23:04] Megan: yeah.

[00:23:04] Michael: Does that mean you don’t speak as much?

[00:23:06] Donald: I don’t speak as much. Yeah, I don’t either. Yeah. I, I, I try to stay home. I try to leave once a month. That ends up being twice a month.

[00:23:13] Megan: Mm-hmm.

[00:23:13] Donald: But that often knocks out three or four days.

[00:23:15] Megan: It’s really true. I, I don’t like to travel-

[00:23:17] Donald: So I don’t do it, no.

[00:23:18] Megan: I- … that much. I mean, I like to travel for fun, but I don’t like to travel for business very often. Yeah, I

[00:23:21] Donald: haven’t been able to figure out how

[00:23:22] Michael: to do that either. This was a game changer for me.

[00:23:23] I, I now mostly speak at events in Nashville. Yeah. And Nashville’s become so hot that so many of, um, event planners are having events here. But, or I bring clients in. Mm-hmm. You know, I just don’t go out to see them.

[00:23:35] Donald: Yeah, yeah.

[00:23:36] Michael: And it’s, you know, I know it’s a luxury, but it’s a period in my life where I’m doing that, focused on that.

[00:23:40] Donald: Yeah, I think it’s a smart, a smart decision.

[00:23:42] Megan: So back to this idea of stress, what do you do that helps you manage stress, and what do you do that doesn’t help you manage stress? ‘Cause we all have both. We have-

[00:23:50] Donald: Yeah …

[00:23:50] Megan: helpful coping strategies and unhelpful coping strategies.

[00:23:53] Donald: Yeah. I mean, the, the two basic things are the cold plunge actually reduces anxiety significantly.

[00:23:58] Yeah.

[00:23:58] Megan: We need a cold plunge, clearly.

[00:23:59] Donald: You and I, clearly. The cold plunge. I know. It’s, it’s not the answer to everything. It’s actually, there’s a, there’s trade-offs. And the trade-offs, just so everybody knows for cold plunging, I put a, a blood pressure monitor on. My blood pressure goes up by 40 points whenever I get in that cold plunge.

[00:24:13] Wow. You are shocking your heart.

[00:24:14] Megan: Yeah.

[00:24:15] Donald: And, and even ended up in the hospital with some heart stuff, and the doctor didn’t think it was because of cold plunging, but I do.

[00:24:21] Megan: Yeah.

[00:24:22] Donald: And that was when I was in, you know, s- sub 35-degree water. I mean, you’re b- practically turning into ice. Oh,

[00:24:27] Megan: my goodness.

[00:24:27] Donald: So, you know, that, y- you’ve gotta be really careful about that.

[00:24:30] The plus side is the dopamine release, the extra energy, the mood boost. Mm-hmm. Uh, o- and then the, the willingness, the want, the desire to work out.

[00:24:38] Megan: Mm-hmm.

[00:24:39] Donald: Uh, you know, all sorts of things. You can j- Andrew Huberman has written a lot- Yeah … about this. So, you know, um, but there’s a downside. Uh- Mm-hmm … and I tell people.

[00:24:47] And when, I have friends who open the garage, come in, cold plunge, and leave. And a- actually, one of them, I was like, “Can I just put this blood pressure monitor on you? I want you to see what’s happening.” Yeah. He was well over 200 in his systolic- Woo! … when he got in.

[00:24:57] Megan: Wow.

[00:24:58] Donald: So I just said, “Hey, your call. But this, I just want you to know what’s happening.”

[00:25:01] Megan: Yeah. Wow.

[00:25:03] Donald: And I have turned down the temperature and become adapted to it, so it, it’s not too bad anymore. And my blood pressure’s actually slightly under-

[00:25:10] Megan: Yeah,

[00:25:10] Donald: I’m low too … 120 over 80. Yeah. Mm-hmm, me too. So, so I’m okay on that. But, you know, that, I do that. That reduces anxiety. And then I try to prioritize sleep.

[00:25:17] Megan: Yeah.

[00:25:18] Donald: So we’re in- That’s huge, isn’t it? Yeah. And it’s actually the hardest battle. Mm-hmm. It is. Is just getting a good night’s sleep. Yep. And so I prioritize that. I have a hard time getting to bed on

[00:25:25] Michael: time

[00:25:26] Donald: Yeah, same here. My, uh, you know, we, after we put the baby down, uh, we used to be 7:00, now it’s more like 7:45.

[00:25:32] Megan: Yeah.

[00:25:32] Donald: We’ve got about an hour.

[00:25:33] Megan: That’s hard. Yeah. Is that… I think that’s one of the hardest things to reconcile yourself to as a parent-

[00:25:38] Donald: Yes …

[00:25:39] Megan: is that you just get this really truncated evening.

[00:25:42] Donald: And you don’t wanna talk to each other. Yeah. You wanna veg out and watch

[00:25:45] Megan: TV or Netflix. Right. But you also need to talk to each other, but then your mornings when your, when your little kids get up early, that’s hard too.

[00:25:50] Donald: Yeah. We’re in the middle of that. We’re heading there.

[00:25:51] Megan: Yeah.

[00:25:51] Donald: We’re heading there fast.

[00:25:52] Megan: Naomi’s up at 5:40 in the morning. It’s just- Ooh. I know.

[00:25:55] Donald: No.

[00:25:55] Megan: Yeah. That’s too early. No. We’re gonna build her a cage.

[00:25:58] Donald: You can get up at 5:40 in the morning, but you gotta go to bed at 3:00 in the afternoon. That’s

[00:26:00] Megan: right. Exa- Exactly.

[00:26:02] Yeah.

[00:26:03] Donald: We gotta get that time back somewhere. Uh, yeah, so those are the two things. And then just, it’s been a constant battle for 25 years, I just try to eat a little bit healthier. Yeah. So I just try not to eat too much bread, too much sugar.

[00:26:16] Megan: Yeah.

[00:26:16] Donald: Uh, try to go most days without any kind of dessert. Mm-hmm. Uh, and that helps a great deal.

[00:26:23] Megan: Yeah.

[00:26:35] Michael: There was a point at which you kind of woke up to your health, ’cause as you said, you were near 400 pounds. And I don’t know when that happened or what precipitated that, but when did health become a priority for you, and what did you do to get… I mean, you look fantastic today. I don’t know if you’re at your ideal weight, but you certainly look like it.

[00:26:53] Donald: Yeah.

[00:26:54] Michael: But what was it that was sort of the, as my friend Don Miller would say, the inciting event?

[00:26:59] Donald: I was… I remember it. I was… I, uh, I went home to Houston. I spent 20 years in Portland, Oregon, went home to Houston. Blue Like Jazz had taken off and I had some money. Uh, not a lot of money, but money. Mm-hmm. And I decided I was gonna, quote-unquote, remodel my mother’s house.

[00:27:16] And so I ripped out the carpet and started putting in a wood floor. And I don’t know what I weighed at the time. I was probably like 350 or something like that. And doing that physical work, realized at 20-whatever years old- Mm … I’m just worthless.

[00:27:31] Megan: Wow.

[00:27:32] Donald: Uh, and it was just that, and I just… That was kind of a moment where I said, “This has to stop.”

[00:27:36] That was moment number one. Uh, and then there was another moment that I’ve, I’ve struggled to write about because I don’t want to give people the wrong impression. But there was a moment back in Portland where, y- you know, I didn’t have any money and, uh, this was before the book had taken off. I was a writer.

[00:27:54] And I, I, I realized… I don’t know how I realized it, but I was looking in, literally looking in the mirror, which sounds so cliche, and realized that identifying as a victim, which is how I identified. Mm-hmm. I identified as somebody that people should feel sorry for, and I felt sorry for myself. And the, the literal r- realization that I had was that it was unattractive.

[00:28:18] Mm-hmm. It wasn’t that it was destroying my life or that it was negative or that it was gonna… That’s the reason that I was… It was unattractive, and that if you wanted people to be attracted to you, you should actually try to become a winner.

[00:28:31] Megan: Wow.

[00:28:32] Donald: And I realized that, no, you want people… You want attention, you want recognition, you want people to be kind to you, and the way you’re going about it is by pretending to be a victim- Mm

[00:28:44] or convincing yourself that you’re a victim, and you’re not getting any of that.

[00:28:48] Megan: That’s a huge

[00:28:48] Donald: insight. So what if, what if you actually just said, “Well, I think I’ll try being a winner”? And I, and I did, and it worked.

[00:28:55] Megan: Okay, so when, when did they- They could tell

[00:28:57] Michael: you

[00:28:57] Donald: maybe Does that make sense?

[00:28:58] Michael: Yeah.

[00:28:59] Donald: It wasn’t like I was, you know, like, “You can do it.

[00:29:01] You can do it.” It, it… The realization was, no, you, you have an effective strategy that you think to, to get what you want, and it, it’s not working.

[00:29:09] Megan: Yeah.

[00:29:10] Donald: Like, women aren’t attracted to you. Turns out women don’t want to nurse their man back to health. That’s not what they- Right … most healthy women are not interested in that.

[00:29:19] And I just said, “Well, what if you tried being a winner? What if you tried actually, like, working hard and being in better shape and, you know, being somebody that isn’t a burden to others?” And I’m telling you, it fricking worked.

[00:29:34] Megan: Okay,

[00:29:34] Donald: I mean, the- I mean, so, and, and it was immediate.

[00:29:36] Megan: That’s amazing- Wow … because you were not a winner overnight.

[00:29:38] I mean, it wasn’t like your whole life changed and suddenly you were successful, you had money,

[00:29:42] Donald: you were at- No, yeah, then I had to go

[00:29:43] Megan: out

[00:29:43] Donald: and win.

[00:29:44] Megan: Yeah. But, but what happened in- But the

[00:29:46] Donald: attitude shifted right

[00:29:48] Megan: then and there. Yeah. Okay, so that’s what I wanna know more about because you went from, “I’m a loser”- Well, the-

[00:29:52] or some version of that to, “

[00:29:54] Donald: I’m a winner” … the real realization was that you are a… You know, let’s be, you know, we’re being blunt here. Right. And I don’t mean to disparage people who are actual victims. I was not an actual victim. Right. I was using victim mentality as a tactic.

[00:30:06] Megan: Mm.

[00:30:07] Donald: And, uh, I was feeling sorry for myself as a tactic, uh, to get what I wanted.

[00:30:12] Mm. And I was flopping like a European soccer player all the time. And it was just ridiculous. And realized that, quite honestly, I realized that women are not attracted to that. Mm. And as soon as I realized they’re not attracted to that, I went, “Well, then that’s not me anymore.”

[00:30:25] Megan: Wow.

[00:30:30] Michael: Hey,

[00:30:31] Donald: whatever works from a motivational standpoint. Okay, I got, I got- They could also tell- … brought in a flood of other problems that we won’t talk about-

[00:30:32] Megan: Yeah … on this podcast. Well, you know, it’s, it’s an imperfect journey- Yeah, exactly … to get where we wanna go.

[00:30:37] Michael: So you wrote a book, and this is related to what you just said, A Million Miles in a Thousand Years.

[00:30:42] It’s, as I told you before we started recording, this is my favorite book that you’ve written. Mm. I’ve given dozens of copies away, including, um, our grandson has read this, and it had a profound impact on him. But does the story that you just told- Where you talk about editing your own story- Yeah … did that play into this?

[00:31:00] Donald: I think that was during… That, that happened in the season that I was figuring out the stuff that would eventually go into, uh, A Million Miles in a Thousand Years, which is essentially that not unlike editing a work of fiction to make it more interesting, y- you can take the principles that you’re using to edit a work of fiction to make it more interesting to the reader and actually apply them to your life.

[00:31:23] Megan: Mm.

[00:31:24] Donald: For example, if you handed me… Well, not you, Michael, because I think both of you would probably write a pretty good novel, but let’s say an amateur handed me a novel and said, “There’s… I, I just… I’m really close, but it’s not working.”

[00:31:36] Michael: Mm. “

[00:31:36] Donald: Can you, can you, not being so close to the book, read it and just give me some tips?”

[00:31:41] I would probably say things like, “It is not clear to me what the hero wants.”

[00:31:46] Megan: Mm. Mm-hmm.

[00:31:47] Donald: Uh, you know, you’ve got a great hero. They, they’re charming. They’ve got a great dialect. I love that they live in New Orleans. I don’t know what they want.

[00:31:55] Megan: Mm.

[00:31:55] Donald: And so you have to make it very, very clear that they want their boss’s job, or they want to marry their high school sweetheart, or they want to lose 30 pounds, or they want to solve the murder.

[00:32:07] There has to be something that the hero wants that, that is incredibly defined. And then they go back and they fix that, and they come back and they say, “Still not working.” And I say, “Well, okay, let me read it again. Here’s why it’s not working. The hero wants seven things.” Mm. “They can only want one.” And every story is about a hero who wants one thing.

[00:32:28] Hmm. Right? Lord of the Rings is not about trying to destroy the ring and rebuild the infrastructure in the b- in the village. Because what happens is you’re actually asking the audience to watch two stories at the same time. Hmm. And they can’t do that. They can’t… It creates too much cognitive dissonance.

[00:32:46] Literally, the brain has to over-process and burn too many calories. Hmm. And the survival mechanism in your brain is when you have to burn too many calories, it will shut off.

[00:32:54] Megan: Hmm.

[00:32:54] Donald: So y- you’re now y- That explains a lot right there … you’re gonna have daydreaming. So what, so okay, let’s just take those two.

[00:32:59] There’s many more, but let’s just take those two things. Well, that, what that means is that your life needs one, and we call it in screenwriting, a controlling idea. Your life needs one controlling idea. Hmm. You know, so for, if I could say what you guys’ controlling idea would be, it would be the pursuit of the double win.

[00:33:16] Megan: Yep.

[00:33:17] Donald: You know? W- and you say, “Well, Don, isn’t that, like, two things or s-?” Well, yes, but you’ve worded it in such a way where we can get our mind around-

[00:33:22] Megan: Mm-hmm

[00:33:22] Donald: Yeah … one, one thing can be two things, and it can have a dozen subplots. Yeah. But it has to, it has to be one thing. Uh, that thing also has to be mutually beneficial.

[00:33:31] So if your goal is to hoard all the money in the world, well, you’ve got a great single focus thing, but it’s makes you an asshole.

[00:33:40] Megan: Yeah.

[00:33:42] Donald: So that also doesn’t work. So there are these rules in screenwriting. That, that by the way, that principle’s called Save the Cat.

[00:33:47] Megan: Mm-hmm.

[00:33:48] Donald: And there’s a book by Blake Snyder called Save the Cat that has ef- affected almost every movie you see in the theater for the last- Yep Yeah I’ve read it

[00:33:54] couple years. Great book. Fantastic book. And when he says save the cat, what he means is make the hero do something kind early in the movie- Hmm … so the audience roots for them and wants them to get what they want. Yeah. And so there, there are all sorts of little tips that, that you use to write a better story.

[00:34:09] Megan: Hmm.

[00:34:09] Donald: And they all work to uh, to, as life principles, uh, to, uh, live a better life. You know, one of them is, uh, the hero has to face their challenges rather than run from them.

[00:34:20] Megan: Yeah.

[00:34:21] Donald: Uh, another one is the only way… I- if you have somebody who weighs 400 pounds and at the end of the movie they weigh, you know, 160 and they’re in great shape, and they, they did that because they decided to, you’ll lose the audience.

[00:34:36] Megan: Mm.

[00:34:37] Donald: They can- it, that doesn’t work, uh, in a story because it’s not true in life. You, nobody wakes up and says, “I’m going to change because I want to.”

[00:34:45] Megan: Mm-hmm.

[00:34:45] Donald: They wake up and say, “I’m gonna change because I have to.”

[00:34:47] Megan: Yeah.

[00:34:47] Donald: So

[00:34:48] Megan: now- I don’t like this about life, by the way. Yeah, me neither. This is on my list of- But

[00:34:51] Donald: you can control it

[00:34:52] Megan: yeah.

[00:34:52] Donald: So let’s say that you wanna get into good shape. It’s super easy. Sign up for a marathon.

[00:34:56] Megan: Yeah.

[00:34:57] Donald: You have to throw yourself into a situation where you are forced to change. Uh, adopt a kid.

[00:35:03] Megan: Yeah.

[00:35:03] Donald: Right?

[00:35:04] Megan: I raised

[00:35:04] Donald: my hand high. Marry the girl. Marry the girl. Yeah. Right? I mean, you know, you force yourself into these life situations.

[00:35:09] And literally I was at 276 pounds when I signed up to ride a bike across America and finished at 216.

[00:35:16] Megan: Wow.

[00:35:16] Donald: You know, we were, we were averaging 13 miles per hour on the day we left. We were averaging 26 on the day we got to Delaware.

[00:35:22] Megan: That’s amazing.

[00:35:23] Donald: That is a transformation.

[00:35:24] Megan: Yeah. I

[00:35:24] Donald: mean, nobody averages 26 unless you’re in the Tour de France.

[00:35:27] Mm. Right? And so you, you know, you have to force yourself into… And that, there’s another principle of screenwriting and storytelling. The only way people change is through pain.

[00:35:37] Megan: Yeah.

[00:35:37] Donald: That’s it. That’s the only- I also don’t like

[00:35:39] Megan: that … that’s the only- I

[00:35:40] Donald: know. That- I really don’t like that. You know, it’s, I don’t know if it’s, I don’t know if it’s God’s design, but I think it’s God’s redemption.

[00:35:46] Megan: Yeah.

[00:35:46] Donald: Mm. I don’t think there’s supposed to be pain. Mm-hmm. You know, my faith would say- Yeah … there’s not supposed to be the sort of pain- Mm-hmm … that we experience- Mm-hmm … in the world. Uh, but God’s redemption is, “I’m gonna use it.”

[00:35:56] Megan: Mm-hmm. “

[00:35:57] Donald: I’m gonna use it for good.” Yep. And if we agree with that and say, “Okay, well, we have to experience pain, so why don’t we just use it for good- Yeah

[00:36:04] and use it to transform ourselves?” Mm-hmm. I think is a, is a redemptive perspective on suffering.

[00:36:08] Michael: So the premise of A Million Miles in a Thousand Years is basically

[00:36:11] Donald: that you can- Edit

[00:36:12] Michael: your own life … edit your own

[00:36:12] Donald: life- In real time … and create a better

[00:36:13] Michael: story.

[00:36:13] Donald: Yeah. A- and when I ma- say a better story, I don’t mean a story that impresses people.

[00:36:17] I mean a story that, um, is actually meaningful to live within.

[00:36:21] Michael: Mm-hmm.

[00:36:21] Donald: So it’s really about you experiencing more meaning in your own life- I’m gonna put you on the spot … and using these, use these principles to do so.

[00:36:28] Michael: What is it that you want?

[00:36:29] Donald: In my life right now? Mm-hmm. The, I would say the, the single focus is, i- in the negative, is to not negatively affect my daughter’s life.

[00:36:39] Megan: Hmm.

[00:36:40] Donald: That’s it. I mean, i- i- and so I wanna, I wanna build a legacy that she’s proud of. Uh, I, I want to be present so that she doesn’t, she doesn’t wake up someday and be attracted to a man who isn’t present because she’s trying to fix the brokenness- Hmm … between her and her father. Mm-hmm,

[00:36:55] Megan: mm-hmm.

[00:36:55] Donald: Uh, the other day we were on an airplane and a gentleman kinda leaned over and said, “You are beautiful.”

[00:37:00] And she said, “I know.”

[00:37:01] Megan: Oh, I love that.

[00:37:02] Donald: And he turned and he looked at me, and he goes, “Good dad.” Oh,

[00:37:06] Michael: wow. That is beautiful.

[00:37:07] Donald: You know, so, and I, I mean that as a, as a sort of controlling idea that affects everything else. You know, be faithful to her mother, be kind, be present- Mm-hmm … uh, provide financially, don’t spoil, you know?

[00:37:21] Mm-hmm. Uh, if you, if you get that right, you got a lot of things right.

[00:37:25] Megan: Mm-hmm.

[00:37:25] Michael: Do, do you think a controlling idea shifts over time? Like is there seasons- Oh,

[00:37:29] Donald: 100%.

[00:37:30] Michael: Okay.

[00:37:30] Donald: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, and I think it’s phases of life. I think when, when you are young and single, I think you are learning and you need to, you need to earn respect.

[00:37:40] You need to, even to yourself.

[00:37:42] Megan: Mm-hmm.

[00:37:42] Donald: You know? You need to create and earn an identity.

[00:37:45] Michael: Mm-hmm.

[00:37:46] Donald: And then I think usually by the time we become parents, we begin, by necessity, becoming less selfish and start thinking about how other people can win. Yeah. And then by the time you’re my age, you’re, you’re, you’re beginning to transition into the wise sage who’s more interested in helping other heroes get out of their hole.

[00:38:01] Megan: Mm-hmm.

[00:38:02] Donald: And, uh, those things are all really satisfying. I would say if your controlling idea, if what your story’s about doesn’t shift and change, something’s wrong.

[00:38:09] Megan: Yeah.

[00:38:09] Michael: Yeah.

[00:38:09] Donald: And I, I think of it almost

[00:38:11] Michael: as

[00:38:11] Donald: sequels.

[00:38:12] Michael: I, I wanna take something you just said. Sorry, Meg. Do you have a question? I do. You’re trying to get it in.

[00:38:17] It

[00:38:17] Megan: might be the same question now.

[00:38:19] Michael: It might be. Well, my question is the phrase you just said, um- Helping the hero in a hole.

[00:38:25] Megan: Mm-hmm.

[00:38:26] Michael: Uh, you and I did an interview yesterday, totally different topic, but you mentioned that phrase and I was thinking about it all night actually. But that’s the role of the guide.

[00:38:34] Donald: Yes.

[00:38:35] Michael: Talk about that in the story structure and how it fits into life.

[00:38:39] Donald: Well, every story starts with a hero in a hole. Uh, it actually starts with a hero who has a stable life, and within about four minutes they have to be in a hole. And the whole movie is about the hero getting out of the hole. That’s it.

[00:38:52] So y- you know, let’s say we’re writing a rom-com. A gentleman meets a young woman at a coffee shop, maybe spills some coffee near her, cleans it up. They have a meet cute moment, they sit down. We now know what the hero wants, or, and the audience wants them to get together. We really like these two people.

[00:39:08] Megan: Mm-hmm.

[00:39:08] Donald: And, and, but if we, if we have them getting married in the next scene, we’ve ruined the movie. Mm-hmm. There has to be conflict and there has to be change. So we s- we… The, the woman after about five minutes realizes what’s happening and says, “I have to go. I, I’m, I shouldn’t be talking to you. I have to leave.”

[00:39:25] And she fumbles her papers, she gets it, she, and she leaves. And he doesn’t have her phone number, he doesn’t know her name, none of that. Now we have a hero in a hole. We have a hero who wants something but can’t get it.

[00:39:33] Megan: Mm-hmm.

[00:39:34] Donald: And now we have a story. But we wanna make the hole deeper. And so the hero gets a call from his mother, says, “Hey, can you come to dinner tonight?

[00:39:41] Your brother is in town, and it’s been a long time since he’s been willing to sit with the family.” And the, the, the hero says, “Well, for good reason. He’s a jerk, he’s a bully, he’s a con artist, and I don’t wanna see him.” She goes, “Please, we always have to give a second chance. He’s family.” So, you know, he goes to the dinner reluctantly, and the brother says, “I’ve got an announcement,” and he introduces his fiancee and it’s the girl-

[00:40:03] from the coffee shop. Now we have a story.

[00:40:08] Megan: That was a legitimate gasp. I did not know that was coming.

[00:40:08] Donald: We have a seek- we have a, a, a, a hero whose the love of his life is about to marry the con artist brother, and now we’ve got a hero- So great … significantly in a hole. And so what we need at this point in the screenplay is we need a guide to come along and help them out of the hole.

[00:40:24] Mm-hmm. So this can be a therapist, it could be a Sunday school teacher, it could be the father, it could be the mother. You know, who, it doesn’t really matter. Sometimes there are multiple guides. But the purpose of the guide is actually to solve a psychological problem, and that is that we know heroes can’t get out of holes on their own.

[00:40:39] Megan: Hmm.

[00:40:39] Donald: And if they, if he does have some realizations and get out of this hole, the audience loses interest, ’cause it’s just is not the way life works. So we are always… And because in life you are always looking for somebody who has the knowledge to get you out of this. So probably our therapist, i.e. Good Will Hunting- Mm-hmm

[00:40:55] is going to have had a relationship that was very difficult, and he solved that problem, and now he knows how to get out of the hole, and he’s gonna turn around and help the hero out of the hole. And the whole story is about the hero getting out. There are rules, by the way, for the guide. The guide, uh, cannot transform.

[00:41:11] The guide does not have realizations in the movie that get themselves out of some hole, because then we don’t know who the movie’s about.

[00:41:16] Megan: Mm-hmm.

[00:41:16] Donald: Uh, the guide has to be authoritative. They have to know what they are… They don’t have to be perfect. Haymitch has a drinking problem in Hunger Games. Mm-hmm. But in the area of his expertise, where we’re using him to help the hero out of the hole, he has to know how to win the Hunger Games and of course Haymitch has done that in the past.

[00:41:31] Uh, they cannot apologize. Uh, you know, there’s a scene, a wonderful scene in Mary Poppins where f- where George Banks, the father, who is the hero of the story, confronts Mary Poppins. Hmm. She has just instigated a series of events that had hi- had the kids go to the bank, and there’s a run on the bank. And, and George Banks says, “Mary Poppins, explain yourself.”

[00:41:54] Now, this is a critical scene in the book. If Mary Poppins says, “Well, let me, let me just tell you where I was coming from. First of all, I apologize,” the movie is ruined.

[00:42:02] Megan: Hmm. Hmm.

[00:42:02] Donald: It’s ruined because now the guide is transforming. Mary Poppins says, “Mary Poppins does not explain herself to anybody,” and walks up the stairs.

[00:42:13] Wow.

[00:42:14] Megan: Wow.

[00:42:15] Donald: So this speaks to the importance that as guides, we have an area in our life that we are extremely competent in. You don’t have to be the most competent- Mm-hmm … but you have to be a lot more competent than the person that you’re helping- Mm … at least in that area. Mm. And I think as a life lesson there, uh, those of us who are getting older need to decide what that, what area that is, and we need to refine those skills- Mm

[00:42:37] and we need to turn around and use them to sort of help people. Again, you don’t have to be perfect, but you’ve gotta be pretty darn authoritative in the area in which you help people- Mm … out of the hole. So th- that’s the, the guide is used in that. And I, and I, and I should also say that in Hero on a Mission, the book that I write, wrote maybe a few years ago, I believe that these roles, the victim, the villain, the hero, and the guide, all of which we’ve talked about except for villain in this podcast, all of those roles, we think those roles exist in stories because there are people who are victim, villain, hero, and guide.

[00:43:06] Mm-hmm. Those four roles exist in stories because they all exist in you All four of those characters exist inside of every human being, and they come out every day.

[00:43:16] Megan: Mm.

[00:43:16] Donald: And if you watch a movie… You know, sometimes if you watch tennis, I’m a tennis fan, sometimes it’s really fun when you’re watching tennis to not watch the ball, to watch one player the whole point, and watch what they’re doing with their feet, watch…

[00:43:31] And don’t follow the ball, and then you’ll really learn a lot about tennis. Huh. If you wanna learn a lot about life, watch the villain for an entire movie. Just pay attention to what they’re doing and put yourself inside of there. And here’s, here’s what they are. They have been injured in the past. Mm-hmm.

[00:43:45] They are bitter about having been injured, and they are seeking vengeance on the world that hurt them.

[00:43:50] Megan: Mm.

[00:43:51] Donald: Which tells us something. And then watch what happens to the villain at the end. They are in, they are imprisoned, they are killed, they are rightly dealt with because they are evil.

[00:44:00] Megan: Mm.

[00:44:00] Donald: And then ask yourself, “Where does this show up in my life?”

[00:44:02] Megan: Mm-hmm.

[00:44:03] Donald: Who, who, who am I bitter against? Who’s hurt me, unwilling to forgive, and seeking vengeance? I want you to know if you can answer that question easily, you are, in that compartment of your life, a villain. Wow. And what will happen to you over time is what happens to villains in a good movie. People will seek justice against you- Mm

[00:44:20] and they are right to do so. But look at the hero. The hero has also always been injured in the past. In fact, 90% of the time they’re an orphan. Watch movies from this point on.

[00:44:31] Megan: Yeah.

[00:44:32] Donald: Early in the screenplay, they will show you a, a, a father or mother abandoning them. They are alone in the world.

[00:44:39] Megan: Mm.

[00:44:39] Donald: And they are having to figure out on their own.

[00:44:40] This is a way of getting, eliciting sympathy from the audience. So they’ve been hurt, but what they do with their pain is they decide, “I’m not going to let this happen to anybody else.” Mm-hmm. And they begin-

[00:44:52] Michael: Ah.

[00:44:53] Donald: They, that’s the difference. Uh-huh. Instead of seeking vengeance, they say, “No, I’m gonna not let this happen to anybody else,” and they become the hero.

[00:44:59] Megan: Mm-hmm.

[00:45:00] Donald: So how we answer the question, what do we do with our pain, determines whether or not you become a hero or a villain in a story. Yeah. It also determines whether or not you become a victim.

[00:45:08] Megan: Mm-hmm.

[00:45:08] Donald: If you say, “Well, I’m gonna continue letting this happen to me, and I’m gonna seek for s- for rescue,” you are now playing the victim.

[00:45:15] And what happens to the victim? Nothing. Yeah. Nothing happens to the victim. A, a, a blanket gets put over their, their shoulders at the end of the movie, and then the ca- the, the camera goes right back to the hero, where it should. So if you’re playing the victim in life, you’re playing a bit part in which you do not transform.

[00:45:32] Megan: Mm. Okay, so one of the things that we were talking about a minute ago was the idea of the guide. Yeah. And you have really put a stake in the ground around the idea of coaching. Mm-hmm. And you are now teaching coaches how to be better coaches, how to build their businesses, and all of that through Coach Builder.

[00:45:51] I want you to share why coaching, why is this a passion for you-

[00:45:56] Donald: Yeah …

[00:45:56] Megan: and kind of what do you see the role of coaching, uh- Yeah … in success and all that? You

[00:46:01] Donald: know,

[00:46:01] Megan: and

[00:46:02] Donald: it’s, it’s such a good question. Uh, I, I think just personally, from my personal story, when I look back over the seasons of punctuated evolution- Mm

[00:46:11] and by punctuated evolution I mean seasons of very fast, rapid growth, two things happen in every one of those seasons. Pain and a person.

[00:46:21] Megan: Yeah.

[00:46:21] Donald: So pain and a person who helped me understand the pain, whether it was a therapist or a business leader or a friend. S- there was a principal figure who stepped into my life, and I can name them.

[00:46:30] Mm. Many of my books are dedicated to them.

[00:46:32] Megan: Wow.

[00:46:33] Donald: Uh, of, of, uh, of those people who, you know, stepped in when my father left, or gave me a shot, a r- a, a delusional, ridiculous, don’t deserve it shot at running their business. Mm. You know, things like that that, uh, that happened. And so I would, you know, those people, you can call them what they want.

[00:46:51] I would just call them coaches. Mm-hmm. And they coached me to success. So one, it’s, it’s I believe in the power of it. I believe in the power of relationships to change lives, and somebody who is older, wiser, and who has been there. They don’t have to be older, but wiser and who has been there, to turn around and say, “Leigh, let me help, help you out of this hole.”

[00:47:08] Megan: Mm-hmm.

[00:47:08] Donald: Uh, so I love that i- that idea. The second reason that I really loved helping coaches is because I think there are, there are people out there who are underpaid and under-respected for the wisdom that they offer.

[00:47:21] Megan: Mm.

[00:47:21] Donald: You know, for instance, we’re working on a program now called Defend the Home, and Defend the Home is where a police officer, off-duty or even retired, or a former military, member of our military, can come into your home and go through a giant checklist of here’s everything you need to do to defend this home, and your security systems, your alarms, your, y- if you want weapons, your weapons, how you keep those very, very safe- Mm

[00:47:46] uh, from kids. Let’s go through a protocol of what happens when you hear glass breaking in the night. This happened because I w- personally was threatened by somebody with a mental health issue-

[00:47:55] Megan: Mm.

[00:47:55] Donald: Wow … and had to have o- overnight security for about two weeks while we got eyes on that person, and turns out they were a homeless person with m- mental health issues.

[00:48:02] Uh, and suddenly I realized, wait, I don’t have a plan. I don’t have a strategy. And then, um, the other part of that was police officers… You know, the guy who actually spent the night on, at the foot of my driveway for a couple weeks, he was paying, was being paid $35,000 a year.

[00:48:19] Megan: Mm.

[00:48:20] Donald: He was also running for sheriff.

[00:48:21] This was not a… Yeah, they are severely underpaid. And so I want, I’m, we’re starting a coaching certification so that former law enforcement, former military can, you know, go through this checklist, charge 2,500 bucks or $5,000 depending on the, the, the scope of the consulting to, to offer this. Well, there’s a gentleman, Officer Cotton, who guards my daughter’s school, as most schools are now guarded.

[00:48:45] Mm-hmm. He probably makes $45,000 a year. He’s supporting his family. I can make him another 50 in 10 days.

[00:48:51] Megan: That’s incredible.

[00:48:52] Donald: And also utilize his wisdom and his expertise. So w- we’re partnering now with Bill Rapier, who was head of SEAL Team Six on the night they killed bin Laden.

[00:49:00] Megan: Mm.

[00:49:01] Donald: Bill will not say whether or not he killed bi- bin Laden because he’s, he’s not supposed to, and he’s very angry at people who are speaking up about that.

[00:49:08] Not angry, but disappointed.

[00:49:09] Megan: Yeah.

[00:49:10] Donald: Uh, but, you know, Bill’s home is prepared to be defended against ISIS. He knows what- Mm-hmm … he’s talking about. And so, you know, Defend the Home will be a brand, and we’ll put it, the coaching certification inside of Coach Builder. But that, that will help these police officers go from, “Wait a second.

[00:49:25] I, I can actually put together a CRM and a landing page and sell these products and do this- Mm … in one day a month and double my income?” And that’s the dream that I have. I wanna do the same thing with teachers- Mm-hmm … who are, I believe are underpaid. Mm-hmm. I- imagine a teacher being able to come into your home saying, “You know, here are the common characteristics of a household of parents of a child who perform extremely well in junior high.”

[00:49:51] Megan: Mm. “

[00:49:51] Donald: And let me walk you through those.”

[00:49:52] Megan: Please send that

[00:49:53] Donald: person to me. You need to have… Yeah, you need to have dinner four times a week together as a family. Mm-hmm. You need to… You know, whatever those things are, uh, that’s a wonderful consulting gig. Uh, imagine a, a, a nurse, let’s say you get a health scare.

[00:50:07] Well, you could pay a nurse 800 bucks a month for a six-month engagement to come into your home and help you understand which pills to take at which time so you don’t get a stomach ache. Mm-hmm. And to understand that, you know… That one’s a little more complicated, uh, because there’s so many different, differing opinions on health.

[00:50:22] But, you know, s- many of these underpaid people in society could do this. We’re starting with business coaches. We have, uh, close to 500 business coaches now. We’re at, we’ll add another 500 by the end of the year. That’s awesome. It will continue to grow. And then as, and then what we do for those coaches is we put them in a small group to teach them to run a coaching business.

[00:50:42] We give them a CRM that we pay for that has hundreds of emails that I’ve written. What’s a

[00:50:47] Megan: CRM,

[00:50:48] Donald: just in case- A CRM is a- … people don’t know about it … customer relationship management. Mm-hmm. It’s a way to email people in an automated sense. It’s like a database, right? We teach you to use- Yeah … one because I, I think it’s the primary tool that you’re gonna need to grow a coaching business.

[00:50:57] Mm. A lot of coaches are great with people- Great bedside manner. They’re effective at, at helping people change and transform and get wins in their life, but they have no ide- idea how to get a client.

[00:51:07] Megan: Yeah.

[00:51:07] Donald: We help them figure out how to get a client, and we wanna get them $100,000 the first year in their Coach Builder membership.

[00:51:13] Mm. So the vision right now, and it’s working really well, is we provide you with all the tools you need to grow a coaching business, and then we provide certification in the business realm. We are quickly expanding to mindset- Mm-hmm … life coaching, and then hopefully defend the home coaching- Yeah … and all that other stuff.

[00:51:27] Michael: You, you have really, with this book, uh, significantly disturbed my sleep.

[00:51:34] Donald: I don’t

[00:51:34] Michael: know if that’s a good thing. So in, in this book, he

[00:51:36] Megan: talks about- Sleep is akin

[00:51:36] Donald: to stress. You gotta be careful.

[00:51:38] Michael: I know. So, so he talks about eight steps, you know, to build your coaching business. We won’t go into those. You can buy the book, and do buy the book.

[00:51:44] Megan: And the book is Coach Builder.

[00:51:45] Michael: Coach Builder is the book, and you can find it where better books are sold.

[00:51:49] Megan: How to Turn- … Your Expertise into a Profitable Coaching Career.

[00:51:53] Michael: And it’s- I love that … and it’s so, like, your head will explode

[00:52:05] Megan: We have three lightning round questions Got it So just- I am ready … prepare your heart. All right?

[00:52:09] Donald: The answers are three, blue, and Seabiscuit.

[00:52:12] Megan: Perfect. Um, what is the biggest obstacle for you in this season- Seabiscuit.

[00:52:17] Donald: No,

[00:52:18] Megan: I’m kidding. … to getting the double win?

[00:52:20] Donald: Uh, the biggest obstacle That’s a, that’s a terrific question.

[00:52:26] I mean, I, I… For me, it’s the biggest challenge is, uh, having to settle. Having to say, “Hey, you’re not gonna get a big win here because it would cost you a big win there.” Mm. Thomas Sowell has some great thoughts on trade-offs.

[00:52:42] Megan: Yeah.

[00:52:43] Donald: And he says, “If you can begin to understand all of life involves trade-offs, uh, then you will begin to have a more, you’ll have more success and more productivity.”

[00:52:53] Mm-hmm. And so for me to say, “Well, you know, you’re not gonna be able to wake Emmaline up in the morning so that you can get some writing done,” is a trade-off. So you actually ask yourself, “Do I want a legacy of a better father, uh, or do I want to finish that book?” You know, I wrote a book every year for probably four to five years every year, and then when I became a dad was a year, immediately a year behind.

[00:53:18] Megan: Mm.

[00:53:18] Donald: And that, to me, that was a trade-off.

[00:53:20] Megan: Yeah.

[00:53:20] Donald: So I chose to win in the area of being a parent and a husband-

[00:53:25] Megan: Mm-hmm …

[00:53:25] Donald: uh, and take a loss in the area of getting another book done. Yeah. And to me, that, those trade-offs, that trade-off was well worth it.

[00:53:32] Megan: That’s great.

[00:53:33] Donald: Good way to look at it.

[00:53:34] Megan: Um, how do you personally know when you’ve gotten a double win, like a given day or period of life?

[00:53:40] Donald: Yeah.

[00:53:40] Megan: Not that it’s ever perfect. I mean, we just go, that goes without saying.

[00:53:43] Donald: Yeah. You know, Viktor Frankl, uh, has a, has a something called logotherapy. Logo- And it’s, uh, it’s a, it’s a, a therapy of meaning.

[00:53:51] Megan: Mm.

[00:53:52] Donald: So if you, if you experience meaning, it is healing. And he defines the way to feel meaning. He, he gives a recipe for it.

[00:54:00] It’s a, an objective that you have, a community that you’re sharing your journey with, and a redemptive perspective on your suffering.

[00:54:08] Megan: Hmm.

[00:54:09] Donald: So you have to take every, every bit of suffering and say, “Well, what does this make possible?” You’re always asking, “What does this make possible?” Mm-hmm. So that you have a redemptive perspective on it.

[00:54:16] Megan: Yeah.

[00:54:17] Donald: Uh, if you do those three things, you will experience meaning, and, and he doesn’t explain what meaning feels like, but I, I will give a stab at it. It, it’s feeling that you are in playing an im- you are playing an important role in an important story.

[00:54:27] Megan: Hmm.

[00:54:28] Donald: And so for me, going back to our earlier conversation here, I need to know what my story is about.

[00:54:33] I need w- what my role is in that story, and that role need, that, that story needs to be mutually beneficial. If I can c- conquer those three things, I feel terrific about life, whether or not I win or not, by the way. It doesn’t actually matter. Yeah. In fact, it, it, you know, I shared with Michael, uh, there was recently a, a heart scare in my life- Mm

[00:54:52] that ended up being a non-event. The doctors were just like, “Okay, we don’t understand.” Uh, and the doctor has now s- cleared me and said, “You’re gonna be fine. You have, you have the artery of a teenager, arteries of a teenager. You’re gonna be great.” Plaque score of 57, which is ridiculous. Oh, my gosh. Way to go.

[00:55:06] And, um- Very envious

[00:55:07] Michael: over here I am very envious …

[00:55:08] Donald: but there was, there were seven days where, uh, we didn’t know.

[00:55:15] Megan: Hmm.

[00:55:15] Donald: And it was one to five years

[00:55:17] Megan: You’re

[00:55:18] Donald: pretty much 100% certain you’re dead in five years. 80%, 80% certain. We,

[00:55:22] Michael: we were going back and forth during that.

[00:55:23] Donald: Yeah, we were. Mm. I was texting Michael. And, um, what was amazing to me during that s- that short, thankfully, season was that no accomplishments mattered anymore.

[00:55:33] I’m a very driven person. Mm-hmm. Very competitive.

[00:55:36] Megan: Mm-hmm.

[00:55:36] Donald: You know, Enneagram 3. Uh, and yet none of it mattered. Mm. I didn’t care whether I finished the next book. I didn’t care whether I got to run for office. The only thing that mattered was relationships. So it was a little, it was a little clue into what life was really about.

[00:55:48] Yeah. What

[00:55:49] Megan: a

[00:55:49] Donald: gift. And it is a gift. Yeah. Hard to- And it’s also easy to forget. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Get back into the game- Mm-hmm … and you forget that- Yeah … none of this means anything.

[00:55:55] Megan: Mm-hmm.

[00:55:56] Donald: And so th- that was a, a big realization that I

[00:55:58] Megan: had. That’s great. Okay, last one. What is one ritual or routine that you rely on to do what you do?

[00:56:05] You shared some already. Maybe one you didn’t share about.

[00:56:07] Donald: Well, cold plunge would be the, would be one. Uh, the other- Don will be sharing

[00:56:11] Megan: his affiliate

[00:56:12] Donald: link later on. That’s the thing. Yeah, so there’s a, there’s a morning ritual that I do, uh, probably 50% of mornings, and I credit it with all of the success, if I’ve had any-

[00:56:23] Megan: Hmm

[00:56:24] Donald: in my life. Uh, it’s, it’s all on a website called Hero on a Mission. It’s completely free. Mm-hmm. We used to charge 10 bucks a month for it, and then we paid off our coders and since, like, okay, now it’s just free. And so we c- we have a, uh, 50 to 100 people a day who sign up for it. It’s just a morning ritual, and basically it involves, among a few other things, uh, reading your life vision.

[00:56:46] Mm-hmm. Which takes me about a minute-

[00:56:48] Megan: Mm-hmm …

[00:56:48] Donald: you know, to get through its bullet points. Uh, reviewing my goals. Uh, identifying the three primary tasks I need to get done today. Identifying secondary tasks. Mm-hmm. And then, uh, writing down the things that I’m grateful for on that day. Hmm. And then there’s this, this little slot for a journal entry.

[00:57:05] Takes me about 10 to 12 minutes if I read my life vision. Sometimes I skip that.

[00:57:09] Megan: Mm-hmm.

[00:57:10] Donald: Takes me six minutes if I don’t. And I’ve been doing that for 10 years, and in that 10 years have lost 200 pounds, uh, got married, became a father, written, I think, seven New York Times or Wall Street Journal bestsellers, built a multimillion-dollar company.

[00:57:25] I would say in the last 10 years I’m more productive than I’d been in the l- the previous 40-

[00:57:29] Megan: Wow …

[00:57:30] Donald: combined, and that is because of that morning ritual.

[00:57:32] Megan: Amazing.

[00:57:33] Michael: I’m signing up today.

[00:57:34] Megan: Yeah, let’s do it.

[00:57:35] Michael: Where do you do that again?

[00:57:36] Donald: Hero on a Mission. Heroonamission.com, and it’s free. We don’t… It doesn’t… We don’t even have a thing that we can sell you after you do it, so I need to work on that.

[00:57:45] Michael: You’ll need somebody in marketing.

[00:57:46] Donald: Yeah.

[00:57:48] Michael: Well, again, thanks for joining us. Yeah. This has been amazing, and, uh, we’re gonna be spending a lot of time together. Even this next week we’re recording- Yeah … the certification class for, uh, Coach Builder that, uh, I’m doing. I’m looking forward to that. I

[00:58:01] Donald: couldn’t be more excited.

[00:58:02] I, I think, you know, if we can get f- five to 10 million people using Full Focus Planner, we’ve, we’ve partnered together in something really significant. Mm. Wow. And, uh, so I, I consider that part of my personal life vision.

[00:58:14] Michael: From your lips- I love that … to God’s ear.

[00:58:15] Megan: That’s

[00:58:15] Donald: right. There you go.

[00:58:16] Megan: Thanks for being here, Don.

[00:58:17] Michael: Thanks, Don.

[00:58:17] Donald: My pleasure.

[00:58:25] Michael: What in the world could we take away from this without taking another 30 minutes? I know. ‘Cause, I mean, literally-

[00:58:32] Megan: So many things …

[00:58:33] Michael: I loved that conversation.

[00:58:35] Megan: I did too, and one of the things that I love about doing this show is that because we talk through the lens of the double win, we get to ask people who are well-known questions that maybe they’re not getting asked all the time.

[00:58:49] Yeah. And I, I’m just so endlessly fascinated by how people live and how they struggle s- through some of these things, and I really appreciated Don’s candor-

[00:58:58] Mm-hmm …

[00:58:59] and how he’s kind of used the story of his own life as, a- and the evolution of that, and the way that he’s been intentional about making that a great story, and really kind of pivoting his life toward meaning and purpose, he’s used that to create a template for other people- Mm

[00:59:21] to do the same, and now in his work with coaches, to help people help other people do that.

[00:59:27] Michael: You know, um, I think my biggest way, uh, takeaway, besides cold plunges-

[00:59:32] Megan: Yeah … which definitely- #coldplunge

[00:59:34] Michael: Yeah, I’m gonna definitely look into that.

[00:59:35] Megan: Just don’t go crazy with it. I feel like that is the other part of that takeaway.

[00:59:38] Don’t miss that, people.

[00:59:40] Michael: Well, you know- Don’t go overboard … the funny thing about it is I, I literally have considered it.

[00:59:43] Megan: Yeah.

[00:59:43] Michael: But the thought of it makes me so uncomfortable-

[00:59:45] Megan: Right, I

[00:59:45] Michael: like- … that I think- Like right now I feel cold … who, who does

[00:59:47] Megan: that? Yeah.

[00:59:48] Michael: You know? But I, I think one of the biggest takeaways for me was this idea of a hero in a hole, and that’s true for all of us, and I think that part of the reason we’re able to be increasingly helpful as we get older is because we’ve fallen into more holes.

[01:00:03] Megan: Yeah.

[01:00:04] Michael: Right?

[01:00:04] Megan: So true.

[01:00:04] Michael: And we’ve, and we’ve struggled to get out of them, and so now we’re in a position to point other people, um, toward how to get out of the hole.

[01:00:13] Megan: Yeah.

[01:00:14] Michael: And I think, I think that was a fantastic insight-

[01:00:18] Megan: I

[01:00:18] Michael: do too … that Don gave us.

[01:00:19] Megan: Yeah. I, I also love the way that he’s pursuing his family intentionally.

[01:00:26] Michael: Mm-hmm.

[01:00:26] Megan: And, you know, because we know him personally, we know that that’s, that’s really happening, and that ultimately for him, success is defined as meaning, and meaning as other people see it, the people that matter the most to you, you know, your, his wife, his daughter, that ultimately he wants to do right by them, and if that doesn’t happen, kind of nothing else matters.

[01:00:53] Yeah. And I think that’s true. You know, I think the research says that’s true. I think our own experience says that’s true, and I think he’s a powerful example of, you know, because he got married later in life, he had kind of this before period, and then this after period. There was probably a during period that got him to the after period, and I think it’s instructive, you know, that- I do too

[01:01:12] that ultimately- You know, acting like the person that you wanna become is a powerful way to become the person you wanna become.

[01:01:21] Michael: Yeah. Beautiful. Um, one last insight I wanna share, and that’s just for those of you that would like to pursue the things that we talked about with Don. He’s got a plethora of books, and they’re all great.

[01:01:33] I mean, I’m finishing Coachbuilder right now and my head’s exploding. But the ones that are apropos to our conversation today would be A Million Miles in a Thousand Years, subtitled How I Learned to Live a Better Story, and then Hero on a Mission. Those two books I really recommend that you get and devour.

[01:01:51] I-

[01:01:51] Megan: And listen to them if you can, because Don is a great reader.

[01:01:55] Michael: He is a great reader.

[01:01:55] Megan: And not every, not every author is a great reader. Um, and you will enjoy… There, there’s a sense of story just in the reading of the book that I think you’d miss if you didn’t get to hear him read it.

[01:02:06] Michael: Guys, thanks for joining us today.

[01:02:07] We look forward to talking to you and introducing you to another great guest here in a week.