9. AMY PORTERFIELD: Preserve Space with Non-negotiables
Audio
Overview
How often do you say no to something good so you can say yes to something better? Work-life balance takes boundaries, and successful entrepreneur Amy Porterfield shares the importance of nonnegotiables in getting the double win. The conversation explores the significance of rest, efficient work practices, and maintaining strong relationships, plus strategies for creating a productive and happy work environment—such as successfully implementing a four-day workweek. Through ups and downs, Amy reveals personal insights and experiences from her journey of building a business while maintaining a fulfilling personal life.
Watch this episode on YouTube: youtu.be/d45LXpqh5kA
The Big Idea
Key ingredients you need for a fulfilling and successful life? Intentionality, communication, and setting boundaries.
Memorable Quotes
- “If I have 20 employees, why am I working on the weekends and nights?”
- “At 5 or 5:30, I’m always quitting work. I can’t remember the last time I worked into the night.”
- “I’ve never worked so little in my life to have my biggest year.”
- “If you don’t make our marriage a priority, what does that say?”
- “My biggest challenge right now is going back to the old way of thinking that I need to work more in order to get to where I want to go.”
- “It’s the quiet and the peace of being on the water that restores me.”
Key Takeaways
- Setting Nonnegotiables: Identifying and adhering to personal nonnegotiables is crucial for achieving work-life balance.
- Creating Boundaries: Establishing clear boundaries between work and personal life can enhance both productivity and personal satisfaction.
- Importance of Rest: Prioritizing rest and downtime can significantly improve efficiency and creativity.
- Team Culture: Building a supportive and flexible team culture, such as implementing a four-day workweek, can lead to higher productivity and employee satisfaction.
- Adapting Over Time: Nonnegotiables and priorities can change over different seasons of life, and it’s important to adapt accordingly.
- Communication in Relationships: Open communication with spouses or partners about work commitments and boundaries is essential.
- Support Systems: Having a strong support system, both at home and in the workplace, is key to maintaining balance.
- Health Prioritization: Taking care of physical health through regular exercise can alleviate stress and anxiety, contributing to overall well-being.
Links Referenced
Take your FREE LifeScore Assessment at doublewinshow.com/lifescore.
Join Michael Hyatt for his free webinar: Land More Coaching Clients, Transform Lives, & Stand Out in a Crowded Market. Visit doublewinshow.com/coach to reserve your seat.
Episode Transcript
Note: Transcript is AI-generated and may contain errors. Please refer to the episode audio or video for exact quotes.
Amy Porterfield: Look what I’ve done for us. He’s like, I would trade everything. We have to have more time with you. Oh, wow. That’s when he broke me wide open.
Michael Hyatt: Hey, I am Michael Hyatt.
Megan Hyatt Miller: And I’m Megan Hyatt Miller.
Michael Hyatt: And this is The Double Win Show. A show about winning at work and succeeding at life.
Megan Hyatt Miller: You know, here at Full Focus, we have identified nine life domains that you can cultivate to help you be the person that you wanna be and live the life that you wanna live.
Those are body, mind, and spirit, love, family and community, and money, work and hobbies.
Michael Hyatt: Today we’re excited to introduce one of our best friends, one of our best buddies, and somebody that we’ve learned a ton from, and that’s Amy Porterfield. She has become a really close friend of our family. She and her husband, Hoby.
She’s a private coaching client of mine and somebody that we just love. Hanging around. In fact, I’ve almost adopted her as a six daughter.
Megan Hyatt Miller: I know We jokingly call her Mamie. That’s right.
Michael Hyatt: Because that’s
Megan Hyatt Miller: Amy with an M in front of it. Since all of us girls have M names.
Michael Hyatt: That’s exactly right. So Amy’s got an extraordinary story.
She’s built one heck of a business, a multimillion dollar business. It’s an Inc 5,000 company. Proud to say she’s a client. She’s also a former corporate professional working with mega brands like Harley Davidson. Tony Robbins, creator of the highly successful online course, uh, DCA or Digital Course Academy, which if you’re thinking about creating a course, we highly recommend.
Yep. We’ve had our en team, our entire team go through it, and it’s been great. She’s the host of the Online Marketing Made Easy podcast, all through the New York Times bestseller two weeks notice. She’s been featured in a lot of major media, and again, she’s just a dear friend and I think you’re gonna love this conversation.
Megan Hyatt Miller: So fun.
Michael Hyatt: Amy, welcome to the show.
Cross: Well, hello my friends. Hello. I feel like this is just a, a Saturday night for us. That’s fun. I know if it was, we would be wearing our comfy clothes. True. Let’s be honest. True. And probably a glass of wine. Probably. Yes. Yes.
Michael Hyatt: Well, I already said this in the intro, but you’re not only, um, a client ’cause I’ve been coaching you now for a couple years.
Yep. But more importantly, you and Hobie are two of our best friends. Oh, and I, I was telling somebody the other day, I said, you know. Amy could literally be one of my daughters.
Amy Porterfield: We have jokingly called her Mamie. I would be the oldest just, just to put it out there. But yes, and I am Mamie. The whole family calls me.
That’s right.
Michael Hyatt: All my, all my daughters. For those of you don’t know, have a name that starts with M or I said you could be my sister.
Cross: True.
Michael Hyatt: My really younger sister. Because you and I map almost identically on all the personality stuff, the Enneagram stuff. Our, you know, things we, or struggle with all of that.
Amy Porterfield: I love when you say that, whenever you say, I’m like you, it makes my heart burst because I’m such a fan and such a dear friend, so I agree that we really could.
Michael Hyatt: Yeah. Aw, awesome.
Well, we’ve got a lot to talk about, and I know that you’re committed to the double win winning at work and succeeding at life.
Absolutely. And so we want that to be the focus here. But I think what we wanna start. What are your non-negotiables? Ooh, you know what? Yeah, because I, I think this is important because, you know, sometimes when people are thinking about the double win, yes, they set an impossible standard for themselves.
Megan Hyatt Miller: You know, it’s like, I wanna be the best in every domain. I’m gonna do all the things, and it’s just not realistic. And for me, one of the secrets of getting the double win pretty consistently is just saying. Everything isn’t at the same love importance. There are these few things that if I can check these boxes, I feel like I’m in a good place.
It’s not maybe like the ultimate. But it is the, the short list, two or three things that are non-negotiables for me. Yes. So what are those for you? You know, while you were talking I was thinking non-negotiables are so personal. Yeah. Like where you are in the season of life. Yep. What’s going on? And so mine have changed so much over the years.
Amy Porterfield: Mm-Hmm. And I’ve been using non-negotiables for at least 15 years now. And so where I am in my life right now, I have a husband who is retired Mm-Hmm. As you both know. And I have a son that’s in college, so we have. A lot of free time. Yeah. If I’m not working, but I love to work. Mm. And I could work all day long.
Yeah. And feel very fulfilled. And then I have a husband waiting for me at five o’clock hoping he’ll get some attention from me. Yeah. So one of the non-negotiables is around 5, 5 30. I’m always quitting work. Wow. I can’t remember the last time I worked into the night. That’s amazing. I love hearing that.
Yeah, so, and I used to work well into nine or 10:00 PM Sure. And so 5, 5 30, we have this funny thing, I’ll walk down the stairs and I’ll say, Hey love, and you know, like I’m coming. And he’ll say, I’m here. So he’s ready. So that’s really exciting that I’ve been able to figure that one out. That’s huge. Well, PS.
Megan Hyatt Miller: Amy has the most adorable husband, Hobie he is, and I feel like he probably wouldn’t like to hear that. He’s adorable because he’s a former Navy Seal firefighter. Like he’s a real, like manly man, family man. But he’s also just so sweet. Yeah. And, and he adores you. Oh yeah. Thank you.
Michael Hyatt: And you’ve, you’ve gotta go.
To Amy’s TikTok account. It might be on Instagram and see Hobie dance. Yes.
Amy Porterfield: Oh yeah. It like
Michael Hyatt: went viral. It was unbelievable. He’s my
Amy Porterfield: clutch. He gets on video and I get all the downloads and it makes me very mad. So yes. So he, it’s rare that he comes on, but he does.
Megan Hyatt Miller: I like that you talked about being in a season of life where you’re basically empty nesters.
Yes. Um, because I think, you know, I’m not at that season. Right. And so that’s a different way of. Thinking about it, I think, but a lot of people listening are at that stage, and so I you, you really do have to create those artificial boundaries. Yes. ’cause nobody’s saying, mom, what’s for dinner? Absolutely not.
It’s just, you know, your husband down there doing whatever he is doing. Yes. And so I, I, anyway, I think that’s helpful as a template.
Amy Porterfield: Yeah. That one, that one’s big for us. And then another non-negotiable is that, I mean, I’m a pretty simple girl. I don’t work weekends. Mm-Hmm. It just doesn’t happen anymore.
And sitting here, is that
Michael Hyatt: a new thing or is that It’s,
Amy Porterfield: it’s probably in the last probably year, I’ve been very solid on it. Mm-Hmm. So, I was gonna say, sitting here, it’s wild for me to tell you that because, and that’s a very common non-negotiable that people have no weekends, but it is very difficult. Yeah.
Mm-Hmm. And now. If I had to work on a Sunday, I’d be like, what? I’d be almost annoyed with the world. Yeah, yeah. Because that is so not my norm. Yeah. So weekends are for family and for rest, and so I’ve really learned that through the double win how important rest is. Yeah. And so I take that very seriously.
And then another non-negotiable, it’s all around Hobie and my family. And that is Hobie loves in the morning coffee time. He loves it. And my mind is racing by like. 6:00 AM I’m like, go, go, go. So a few times a week and definitely the weekends it’s 30 minutes coffee, phone’s down, can’t see it, and just talking.
Ooh. And my husband’s a talker, so he talks the whole time and I just listened. But that coffee time’s important to him and that became a non-negotiable when he came to me and said, I never see you. We never connect. I’m struggling here with your work. That was years and years ago and it scared me.
None: Yeah.
And so
Amy Porterfield: I realized quality time is at the top of his list. It’s gotta be my non-negotiable. So my non-negotiables really center around making a happy marriage. Mm-Hmm. Because I got the work locked in. Yeah. I could do that all day long. I need non-negotiables around. My personal space. Yeah.
Michael Hyatt: Okay. I wanna ask a question.
I’m sorry. I’m gonna jump in here.
Megan Hyatt Miller: This is what happens. We literally are in our minds, fighting with each other over who gets asked the next question because we both have like five that we just
Michael Hyatt: wanna ask. I was slapping her. Yeah,
Megan Hyatt Miller: right
Michael Hyatt: now of course. I forgot the question. Oh,
Megan Hyatt Miller: that’s fine. I have one. Don’t worry.
Um. So just talk for a second about how this used to be for you, because you, you just Okay. That’s what I was, that’s what I was gonna about. Okay. Oh, you guys are in sync. Ha. Half the same. DNA, it really works for us. Um, but I appreciated that you said it used to not be like this. Yes. And he came to you because I think
Michael Hyatt: it’s, it happened for me too, right?
It’s, it’s
Megan Hyatt Miller: easy for people to think, oh, well, I mean, some people are just good at this. Like it’s a innate talent or some character trait, and I love that it wasn’t always
Amy Porterfield: easy for you, so, absolutely. Yeah. So I started my business 15 years ago, and in the beginning, the first probably five years. It was absolutely every single night.
Mm-Hmm. I didn’t even think about taking a weekend off. That was never part of the equation. And Hobie, and I have to say, sadly, Cade my son. Mm-Hmm. They were not priority. My work was. And when you’re starting something from scratch, or if it means a lot to you, it makes sense that you’re going all in.
Mm-Hmm. That’s my personality, but I didn’t understand the balance and how important it was, and so I was tired, I was frustrated, I was resentful of. The fact that I wasn’t spending time with my family, but I didn’t change anything. Wow. That was the weird part. Yeah. Like I was mad that I was always working and I knew that this wasn’t what I was supposed to do, but I would say to Hoby, I don’t have a choice.
Oh, that was something I was so wrong. I don’t have a choice. How am I gonna build this business if I’m not working this much? So, wow. You should be grateful. You. Yes, exactly. Like, look what I’ve done for us. He’s like, I would trade everything. We have to have more time with you. Oh, wow. That’s when he broke me wide open.
Megan Hyatt Miller: Yeah.
Amy Porterfield: And so I realized, did that happen
Megan Hyatt Miller: like in one conversation there, there was a distinct moment that you had that, that you were like, holy cow cow. There was
Amy Porterfield: actually, it was, I remember it very vividly. It was a long time ago actually. Mm-Hmm. So this was probably, I think about five years into the business.
Mm-Hmm. He was a firefighter at the time. So he worked and he was busy. Mm-Hmm. He wasn’t retired, but it was. I just, I made every excuse in the book to work.
None: Hmm.
Amy Porterfield: And I, now looking back, we had our biggest year last year and I told Michael in our coaching session, I’ve never worked so little in my life Wow.
To have my biggest year. So,
Michael Hyatt: which kind of unnerved you
Amy Porterfield: very much. Yeah. I’m like, what in the world? Yeah. So I feel like I’m absolutely an example of a double win. ’cause I’ve seen it. Work firsthand in my business. Mm. Yeah. How did you go from that though? Sorry.
Megan Hyatt Miller: I’m just really excited about this. I know.
You’re, you go for it. How did I go from, how’d you go from, you know, Hoby saying, I would trade all this for more time with you. Yes. To you actually freeing up your calendar and dealing with like, the kind of internal Mm-Hmm. Conflict of. I wanna work all the time and I don’t think I have a choice. I think, like I said earlier,
Amy Porterfield: that conversation scared me.
Mm-Hmm. I actually thought it was the first time my marriage was a little bit in danger because he really had had it, it had gotten to a point that he’s like, no more excuses. I don’t want to hear it. If you don’t make our marriage a priority, what does that say? Mm-Hmm. And so that scared me. So right away I thought, okay, I’m gonna make some changes for sure.
But then it took probably a good six months for me to really get into the habit. I get that it right. It would be, yeah. I don’t work nights, but maybe two nights a week I have been working like it. Mm-Hmm. It, it had to be a slow progression for me. Cold Turkey. I actually think I would’ve felt resentful to hobie.
Hmm. Like, wait a second. I don’t know how to navigate this way, and now I can’t. Mm-hmm. If you tell me I can’t do something, it’s gonna be hard. Yeah. Kobe’s well aware. So he let me ease into it. I’m the baby steps kind of girl. So I did like, you know, Monday and Tuesday I didn’t work, but Wednesday and Thursday I probably did work a little later and then it started to taper off.
’cause I started to see I can do this. My business is okay, I needed the proof, and so the baby steps help me. And then also. When I realized that how much important rest was when I wasn’t working on the weekends and how much better I was to my team and not working on the weekends and nights made me build up my team.
So back then I had one full-time employee. Today I have 23 full-time employees. Mm-Hmm. And so I didn’t have the infrastructure not to work nights or weekends to get to the goals that I wanted. I didn’t know how to do that the minute I hired some people on the team. That also eased me into, I don’t need, if I have 20 employees, why am I working on the weekends and nights?
Yeah. But to be clear, for those listening that don’t have 23 employees, I didn’t need to work nights and weekends to get to here. Okay. Yeah. Right. That leads to a question
Michael Hyatt: I wanted to ask. Yeah. So I get this a lot, but you’ve got a extremely successful business, right? And you seem that as a wonderful life, you know, people from the outside looking in.
What do you say to the new entrepreneur that says, oh, that’s fine for you. Right? But you can’t start a business and make it successful unless you’re gonna work 80 to a hundred hours. I. A week. Yes.
Amy Porterfield: I love this question because I tell my students, I, I want my students to start their business off with a four day work week, which is very bold.
I didn’t, obviously, but I’ll say to them, I understand that it’s weird coming from me. The only success that I know is working nights and weekends and almost killing myself for the first five years. But I have proof that after those five years, what I was able to do, I get more done. Because I’m not working late into the night and weekends.
Yep. That I know they can get more done than I did back then. Hmm. So I use that as proof and I give them the systems and the processes. But I really do believe, and the biggest regret I have is thinking I had to work that much to get to where I am. Wow. I do not believe that was necessary. Well,
Michael Hyatt: the the truth is when you’re tired
Amy Porterfield: Yes.
Michael Hyatt: And you get a little cranky, you don’t get as much work done. It takes longer to complete
Amy Porterfield: things. I was gonna say that. Yep. And it’s,
Michael Hyatt: and it seems like. You could be more efficient and if you could maintain that level of productivity when you are well rested and really focused and really creative, if you could do that for 12 hours a day, that would be awesome.
None: Yeah.
Michael Hyatt: But you can’t, right? That’s the bottom line. All the research shows that. So yeah. I love the way you answered that.
Megan Hyatt Miller: Yeah. And so if you’re listening and you’re thinking, yeah, but I can. You’re not a special snowflake, is really what you’re saying. Yes. I’m really
Michael Hyatt: saying that because I think that I thought for much of my career that, yeah, yeah.
All that stuff’s for everybody else. Mm-Hmm. We even published this book when I was in the book publishing business by a lady, and it was basically how to survive on four hours of sleep at night. I was like, oh, geez. So that you could work more. Well, first of all, I, I have super regrets about publishing that book because that’s like, lack of sleep
Megan Hyatt Miller: will literally kill you.
Trumps Trumps everything. Yes.
Michael Hyatt: What’s that? And
Megan Hyatt Miller: it’ll literally kill you.
Michael Hyatt: Yeah. It’ll literally kill you. Truly bad for your heart. Bad for everything. Bad for relationships. Bad, bad, bad, bad, bad.
Amy Porterfield: It’s funny because in our coaching sessions we talk a lot about sleep, don’t we? Like how to get better sleep, the different tools you’re using.
Like I use my business coaching time with Michael Hyatt to talk about. How do I get better sleep? Because I know it comes out in the revenue. Like I, I see it now. It really does. So fascinating. Yeah. So what does rest look like for you now? So it looks like closing the computer, turning the phone around, like not seeing the face of the phone and being present with my family and my friends, or just, I love to spend time alone.
Yeah. I’m very introverted. Yeah. So shutting it all down. It also looks like. We have a lake house, so going to the lake and getting on the water and reminding myself in the moment. ’cause I wanna be honest, I’ll get in those moments sometimes and think what I should be doing. Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm. I take me too. I take a lot of Mondays off now, and being on the water on a Monday freaks me out.
Still. Like it’s hard to relax the whole time. Yeah. And I tell myself. I, I get to do this because I’ve put the systems and processes in place and I value time away from work, which makes me enjoy the work even more. Yeah. So it’s still a little chatter in my head sometimes, but you know, being with the family, being on the water and take and stepping away from the computer, that’s all rest to me.
Michael Hyatt: Okay. So we have a. A lake house on the same lake. Mm-Hmm. Which is really fun.
Amy Porterfield: Fully copied Michael and his family. They didn’t follow me.
Michael Hyatt: But, um, one of the things that, that I love too is to be on the water, but what is it about being on the water that you find restorative?
Amy Porterfield: It’s the quiet Mm-Hmm. I think just having complete quiet around me and nobody’s asking me to do anything or make a decision or, Mm-Hmm.
Just that peace. Absolutely. And then looking out nature is, I didn’t realize I needed nature so much. Looking out at the nature and feeling it’s so expansive and I feel expansive in that. To me, that’s calms my nervous system. Yeah.
Michael Hyatt: Absolutely.
Amy Porterfield: Yeah. I love it. I couldn’t agree more. Yeah.
Megan Hyatt Miller: Okay.
Let’s shift gears and talk about your team for a second. Okay. Because I think this is an area that you have done so well in because you don’t just have the double win for yourself. You’ve also been very intentional about cultivating that for your team. So will you talk about how you’ve done that and what’s worked and maybe what’s not worked?
Amy Porterfield: So I think, you know, we talk about people pleasing and not a very positive thing. Mm-Hmm. However, I think my people pleasing tendencies has allowed me, the good part about it, the silver lining, is to make sure that my team gets to experience some of the double win that I’m experiencing. Hmm. Yeah. So when we went to a four day work week, I know some of my peers, they take a four day work week, but their whole team doesn’t.
Mm-Hmm. And that’s fine. It works for them. Mm-Hmm. I wanted my business to feel. Entrepreneurial and not corporate. And to me, freedom is that first part of that. Yeah. And so, and I also have a lot of moms on my team. Mm-Hmm. It’s primarily women and many of them are moms. So I wanted them to have more time with their family.
So right away when I thought I want Fridays off. I knew I wanted my whole team to have Fridays off. Mm-Hmm. I bought the book shorter. Because you recommended it. Yeah. And that was really valuable. We learned how to do it. We did a trial run. One thing I love about the book shorter is it tells you do a trial run 60, 90 days.
Mm-Hmm. Tell your team, this probably isn’t going to work. We’re probably not gonna stick with it, but we’re gonna try it. And I have to say something funny about a four day work week with a team. I went to my team and said, I have a great idea. I think we’re gonna move to a four day work week. I expected cheers, trophies, champagne, toast.
Like I’m the best boss in the world, and they have the audacity to look at me and think, what are you saying? We can hardly get the work done in five days? Mm-Hmm. Four days is gonna be more stressful. Wow. We don’t love this. I was crushed. I couldn’t believe it. They didn’t love the idea. Huh? Then I had my leadership team read the book.
And they realized, oh, we have to change a few things in order for this to work. Our structure and how we do our days has to change, but this is possible. And then the book tells a lot of proof about how it works. Yeah. Right. It’s very compelling, right? It is. Mm-Hmm. Like after you read the book, you’re like, wait, I could do this.
Mm-Hmm. So once my leadership team read the book, they were on board, but I was very offended for the record that they didn’t think I was the best boss in the world. But it’s been over two years now and I wouldn’t change it for the world. It is so important to us. So that’s one way. And you
Michael Hyatt: had your biggest year.
Ever last year on a
Amy Porterfield: four day work week. Yeah. Yes. So wild and wow. Just thinking you could
Michael Hyatt: accomplish if you did five days
Amy Porterfield: stop. Don’t, don’t tell me. I thought you were gonna three days. Heidi, Brooke Castillo. Oh my gosh. You all know Brooke? Yeah. She told me when I started the four day work week, I was freaked out.
Like, what if this doesn’t worked? What if productivity goes down? What if revenue goes down? I was very nervous. Mm-Hmm. And she said, and if it does go to a three day work week. Oh. Like she was so adamant. Love that. It’s not more time and work that you need. It’s the efficiency and the focus. Yeah. So when she said that, I’m like, we’re gonna make this work.
Oh, I love that. Okay.
Megan Hyatt Miller: So what are some of the maybe your top two or three changes that your team had to make?
Amy Porterfield: Yes. To make the four, four day work week work for them. Number one, meetings. Time together, uh, we had to become more efficient. So, you know how when you set up a meeting, default is typically like an hour meeting.
Mm-Hmm. That’s never our default. It’s 30 minutes. And if you need longer, you have to justify why a longer meeting is needed. So you have to think about it first. Two, we weren’t doing this before. You, whoever books the meeting has to send the agenda with the meeting announcement. So we know exactly why we’re having this meeting.
So people can say, actually, this meeting’s not needed and here’s why. And we have those conversations now because when you only work four days and you’re in meetings two or three hours a day, you are not getting the work done that you need to get done. Done. Yeah, that’s right. We’re stacking up. Exactly.
So we had to cut down the meeting time and to ask, is this really a meeting? You know, the, the joke that meeting could have been an email. Yeah. I think that’s true in many ways. So we do less meetings. We also have two days a week that there are no meetings. Mm. So Tuesdays and Thursdays for my team, nobody is meeting at all unless there’s a.
Uh, exception.
Michael Hyatt: That’s ’cause you’re an introvert. It’s, yeah. You made sure there was introvert time. It’s
Amy Porterfield: so true. Like yeah, I totally get that. I had it my way. We’d never have a meeting. Right. Although I’d miss my team. Yeah. So yeah, Tuesday, Thursdays, no meetings. And then a third thing was when we started the double win.
And this is great for anyone who’s thinking about it. The people that really got it and it was working for them. They had to mentor the people that it was not working. Mm. Jill is my longest standing employee of seven years now, and she came to us and said, this isn’t working. She’s my content manager. I can’t get it done.
Here’s why. And we took someone from marketing who was killing it with the four day workweek and worked with her to, to share some of the strategies. So not everybody on the team, it’s gonna click. And if it’s not everyone, then it can’t be, you can’t pick and choose. Mm-Hmm. Yeah. So if we hear people working on Fridays, we’ve gotta talk about it.
Do you find that there’s any commonality between the people who struggle to get the four day work week? Absolutely. Number one, the just the idea believing this could possibly work. So it’s a mindset issue. It was like, I think definitely she probably thought, wait a second, this isn’t going to necessarily work and here’s why.
So she had probably reasons for that.
number two is that the way that they set up their day in the beginning made all the difference. Mm-Hmm. So we use the full focus planner, everybody does on my team. And I think those who really embraced it and used it religiously, I think that they were ease way they eased into a four work week.
Easier. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. You know, we’ve found that our moms get this. The easiest, you know, like it, oh yeah. That’s
Michael Hyatt: so counterintuitive.
Megan Hyatt Miller: I know it conceptually makes the most sense to them. I think the mindset part is not nearly as difficult. I think part of that is because they have little people, or not so little people who are waiting on them.
Yes. At the end of the day, we don’t do a four day work week, but we have a, you know, approximately 30 hour work week, and so we end around three o’clock every day. And that’s pretty easy when you’ve gotta be in the car line picking up your kids. Like it’s a, it’s a forced kind of transition point. Yeah. Um, where our.
Folks who are single or maybe empty nesters, it’s harder for, because like you were talking about Mm-Hmm. You literally could just work all the time because there’s no external constraints in place. Yes. And so, um, I think that’s an interesting challenge to overcome. If you are in a season where you’re not in a relationship or you don’t have children at home anymore,
Amy Porterfield: so true.
You got, yeah. Yeah. The, the season of life means everything. Yeah. To how things actually click and work. Yeah.
Michael Hyatt: I wanted to move the conversation a little bit to the other domains of life. Okay. And you know, because if you just listen to what’s happened so far, it’s kind of all. Rainbows and unicorns. Mm-Hmm.
But of the nine or or 10 domains, uh, that you have, um, what is the easiest for you and what is the most difficult? Hmm. And you kind of already admitted to the first one. Okay. When you say domains, well, I’m talking about the different categories like. Mind, body, spirit. Oh yeah. Community. So business easiest.
Yeah. Yes. So work. Yes, work is the easiest for me. And then the one that I probably struggle with the most, well, my health. So over the last 15 years of building the business, I’ve really struggled with my health. Meaning not eating well, not working out. Mm-Hmm. Not getting enough sleep. And to this today, I think my health is in the best place it’s ever been.
Amy Porterfield: Mm-Hmm. That is all hard one. I worked out this morning and I did not want to, I complained for the first 10 minutes. Me too. So it’s that one. It just doesn’t come natural to me. Um, I don’t cook, so food doesn’t come natural to always have like something great in the kitchen. So if you looked at all those, I think that’s the one that I have to be very mindful of.
Not that we all have one. I like that. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. It’s so important to just. Bring this out into the light because it’s easy when you’re talking with someone or you’re watching a video from someone who has a public personality and or you follow ’em on Instagram and everything looks amazing.
Megan Hyatt Miller: It’s like, oh, they’re just, they’re just one of those people. Mm-Hmm. That everything comes easily to, yes. And in our experience interviewing so many people and having so many conversations. Where there’s a level of candor, nobody, it doesn’t come easily to anybody. No. Right. That’s so true. Not in every area, anyone or every day in every area.
Amy Porterfield: Another one I really struggle with when you’re saying that, it reminded me, I don’t know what you would call this, but I don’t have a lot of hobbies. I. I don’t have a lot of interest outside of work. Yeah. And I’m embarrassed by that. I hate the question, what are your hobbies? I just like freeze and I wanna make something up.
Like I am an avid hiker. I’m not, but I just wanna say it because I don’t sound very interesting. You’re an avid coffee drinker. Exactly. Your husband. Exactly. I love true crime documentaries. Yeah. So, which is true, but. Because I work so much and enjoy the work and find purpose and unfortunately identity.
Mm-Hmm. I know that’s not super healthy, so I’m aware of it, but it’s the truth for me that finding things to do outside of work Yeah. Doesn’t totally interest me that much. Mm-Hmm. Yeah. So, but I don’t think that’s healthy. It could be a seasoned thing. It’s definitely, I, I’m not gonna say it’s not healthy, but I will say that hobbies do really add to your life, right?
Michael Hyatt: Yes. ’cause they create space for you to, to work in a sort of a. Uh, what’s an adjacent field where you often get ideas for your business just out of nowhere? It’s un it’s a completely unrelated, I love that, but it stimulates your creativity. And I’ve gotten really serious about hobbies in the last 10 years.
You have? Yeah. Yeah. So I, I’ve got, I’ve got. Too many hobbies for the time I’ve got available for the hobbies. I can’t even imagine the day I say that I would roll over. I just can’t believe it. Well, I, I literally, I went to a golf lesson last night and it was so amazing. Best golf lesson I’ve ever had in my life.
And, uh, so then I came back. Words would’ve never come out of my mouth. Ever. Never. And I told, I told Jim, my assistant, I said, okay, I wanna do this every week. And he’s like, dude, where, where are you? Where are we gonna put this on your calendar? I said, oh, yeah. So, but I, I still love that ’cause I, I feel like I get so much, but the thing I like about it is.
You can often kill two birds with one stone. ’cause I really struggle probably more anywhere than in sort of the friendship category. You know, relationships. Yes. But if I can play golf with a friend, I get quality time for four hours where we’re having fun doesn’t have to be too intense. And for guys. It, it works best for conversation if we don’t have to look at each other.
Oh, did you know that? I never knew that. But that makes sense. Like if we’re in a golf cart or in a boat fishing, you know, we have amazing conversations. But put us on a, I mean, my best friends, I can sit across from the table and have a great conversation. Yeah. But it’s just more conducive if I don’t have to do that.
That’s funny. So that’s hobbies serves that other domain too. How do you do on friendships? I, you know, I made it a goal this year to be a better friend because I’ve seen the difference. Do you? Mm-Hmm. Thank you for that. Um, Jasmine Star is a dear friend of mine and she said the same thing. I see where you’re showing up differently because I’ve always had great friendships and feel very fortunate in that area, but I think my friends were pouring more into me than me to them.
Amy Porterfield: Mm-Hmm. Especially those that don’t have a business. ’cause they’ll always say, we know you’re so busy. Yeah. I, I feel so bad when I, I hear that. I hate it. Hey. That’s so funny. You say, I’m that than, than you’re right. So when I started hearing that more and more I thought, I’m giving off something that my time’s more valuable or something.
Mm. So I’ve started to pour into friendships more show up. Um, Jasmine has this really fun thing where if she’s around you and you say something, let me give you an example. She, we were. Vacationing together and she had all these slippers in the hotel and I loved them. Well, I got home and they were already delivered to my house.
No, like she always pays attention to what people love and what they’re interested in That amazing, amazing. And she follows up. So I kind of, the friends that I really admire, I try to follow suit. So I’ve been doing more things like that and it’s made such a huge difference. Yeah. So, and it’s enriched my life to be a good friend feels good.
Mm. So yeah. That part I’m getting better at. Mm-Hmm. You know, I’ve, I’ve often said that if you struggle with friendships, become the friend you wish you had. Exactly. What I’m doing. Yes. And that’s exactly what you’re doing. Yes. And I had a couple of opportunities to do this yesterday, just to, to be generous and, and to give to somebody something they didn’t ask for.
None: Mm-Hmm. And in one case, kind of over the top. Uh, but I like that. I just like surprising and delighting people. Yes. And not having any interest in any kind of, yeah, somebody repaying me or it being reciprocal. It’s just, that feels good. Yeah. Exactly. Yes.
Michael Hyatt: So, uh, lot of your audience.
Are people that are looking to create a side hustle that probably they hope and they dream will turn into a real business.
Yes. Right. And so you wrote two week notice Mm-Hmm. And help people sort of get a path to that. Yes. Which was, by the way, a New York Times bestseller. That’s right. Did we mention, I will, did we say it one more time? Say New York Times bestselling other Amy Porterfield in the house. So good. But, um, how do you maintain the double win?
When you’re trying to do a side hustle. Now I, I know how I would answer that. ’cause I think there are times when you kinda have to intentionally go out balance. Okay, that’s what I was going to say season. So I’d love what you have to say because I don’t know if I am, I have the answer here. I do think there are seasons where you are out of balance.
Amy Porterfield: Mm-Hmm. And so with that. What would you say to somebody who has a nine to five job kids at home and they wanna start a side hustle of teaching women how to get in shape during menopause? So they’ve got, they’re gonna do videos, they want a membership, they wanna do the whole thing, but they have to start a side hustle.
I. How do you maintain a double win? I’m not sure of that. So I’d love for you to tell me so I could tell my students. Well, I, I think what I would say is that there are seasons that you have to go out of balance. Yes. But it always, always must be negotiated with your spouse and truly temporary. And it’s truly gotta be temporary.
Megan Hyatt Miller: Yes. Okay. So, so where we get. Sort of unselfaware and deceive ourselves as we think, oh, this is just gonna be temporary. And then it slides right into another temporary situation that slides into another temporary situation. Then it becomes a way of life. Yes. So if you can truly put a boundary around it and say like, we had a thing when we were recently trying to fill our masterminds.
Michael Hyatt: I, I went to my wife Gail, and I said, honey, this is gonna be about a one month project and I’m gonna be out of balance. There are gonna be a few evenings I’m gonna be working. Are you okay with that? ’cause here’s what we’re trying to accomplish. She said, yeah, sure. And sure enough, after a month, boom, right back into balance.
Amy Porterfield: That’s good because one, not only are you telling your spouse, it’s almost like you’re telling yourself too well, you’re kind of giving yourself mechanism of accountability. Yes, that’s exactly, exactly. When you say it out loud, like explicitly to your spouse or you know, a close friend or coach or something like that.
Megan Hyatt Miller: You’re basically saying, I’m making a commitment that I’m gonna do this thing, but this thing is gonna have an end date, end date. And they can come back to you and say, remember it’s, you know, May 31st, and you said you were gonna be finished with this and what’s the deal? Yes. Now the difference is that when you’re starting a business, you’re probably not gonna do that a month.
Michael Hyatt: Right. So True. So, so I think at, at that point, you’ve gotta just
Reevaluate your priorities and not sacrifice things you don’t intend to sacrifice. Like I would still make health a priority, for example, yes, because everything else is a, is affected by that. But I might give up golf or a hobby or seeing some of my friends for that season that I’m in, that I’m just gonna sort of not eliminate it, but downsize it a little bit so that I can accommodate this side hustle.
Because the bottom line is you got 168 hours a week and you don’t wanna steal from the lesser things. You know, are the, the greater things in order to, you know, basically fund with time. This side hustle. This is where those non-negotiables you were talking about comes in. I was just thinking of that when I was thinking about when I was starting my business.
Amy Porterfield: I never sat down and said, I think it’s about intentionality. I never sat down and said, what is most important to me before I go into this really big new adventure? I never did the work. I never journaled or thought about it, and if I did, then I think I wouldn’t have gotten so off track for so long. Yeah, so I do love that, that you could, you could create your own double win, your own version even in the most busiest seasons.
That’s right. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Okay, we have three. Lightning round questions. Okay. That we ask every guest and we wanna ask these of you. Okay. So first, what’s your biggest obstacle in this season? For achieving the double win, be as vulnerable as you wanna be.
I want to uplevel my business.
I wanna hit a certain revenue goal. I wanna hit a certain impact with my students. I have to uplevel. And my biggest challenge right now is going back to the old way of thinking that I need to work more in order to get to where I want to go. And so I literally just talked to my CEO yesterday where she said, I need you to pull back a little.
You’re getting involved in too many things. Michael knows this is my problem. And so she said. I’ve got this, let me handle it. And it was, it’s because I’m trying, I wanna uplevel so I better get involved more. Yeah. Work more. So it’s going back to old habits. I’ve gotta be careful of
Megan Hyatt Miller: I love that you just said that.
It starts with your thinking. Absolutely too. ’cause we don’t realize how our beliefs about how the world works, how we are, you know, what success is, what it takes to be successful. Those are driving our behaviors in so many ways that if we’re not aware of. They will sabotage us. Yes. Well
Michael Hyatt: true. And I mean, you built your business like I did in the beginning, not knowing any better, uh, through brute force.
Amy Porterfield: Yes.
Michael Hyatt: And as Dan Sullivan says, what got you out of Egypt’s not gonna get you into the promised land?
Amy Porterfield: Mm-Hmm.
Michael Hyatt: So you gotta change your thinking at some point. Yeah. ’cause you’re, you’re, that methodology will not scale
Amy Porterfield: Absolutely.
Michael Hyatt: Without serious destruction.
Megan Hyatt Miller: Yeah.
Michael Hyatt: True.
Megan Hyatt Miller: Okay. So how do you personally know that you’ve gotten the double win?
Amy Porterfield: My husband is very happy. Wow. His happiness means a lot to me. Wow. So when I see our marriage thriving and hoby happy. Mm-Hmm. And feeling loved and supported, I know I’ve got this right. He is such a great, is it barometer? Would that be the right word? Mm-Hmm. He’s such a great barometer for that.
Megan Hyatt Miller: Wow. Yeah.
It’s interesting, as we’ve asked now, quite a few people this question, the answers I would say bucket into two categories. Either the somebody in the family, usually the spouse or the kids. Say that they’re good or that you can just tell they’re, they’re in a good place or that they experience a sense of peace.
I would say like the, the answers kind of fall into those two categories, which is so fascinating. Okay.
Michael Hyatt: What’s one ritual or routine that helps you do what you do? It’s a little bit of the non-negotiable, but a ritual or routine. As
Amy Porterfield: much as, I don’t wanna admit this at all, it’s working out.
Michael Hyatt: Oh, I hate that you said that.
Amy Porterfield: I know. I struggle with anxiety. Very much so. So do we. This is the anxiety club club that we we’re in the same club. I wake up in the morning and I can feel it racing through my body. Let’s say it’s five 30 in the morning. I haven’t even had a thought and I could feel it. I get into that gym. I have a trainer that comes to the house three days a week.
I’m very fortunate for that. We start and it is gone. Wow. After that workout, I feel like a different person. I do not want that to be the answer I want it to be. I watch Netflix on the couch and it serves me, but it’s not true. Yeah. Yeah. That’s fantastic.
Michael Hyatt: Can we put ice cream into that? Yes. Yeah. Please.
Amy Porterfield: Yeah, definitely.
Michael Hyatt: Wow. Well, Amy, this has been so much fun.
Amy Porterfield: I love this. We, we
Michael Hyatt: could do like we could talk forever.
Amy Porterfield: Forever. We could. I’m gonna ask to be a co-host next time. Oh, good, good. I just wanna here with you all time. You just come on. Well,
Michael Hyatt: we should two of you just do it. See
Amy Porterfield: when Michael’s done, call me.
Okay, great. Great. Thank you, my friends. Great to have you. Thank for being here.
Michael Hyatt: Okay. That was so fun. I think we could have gone on for hours.
Megan Hyatt Miller: I know, I, I had to sort of have a little conversation with myself of, you know, be reasonably professional. You’re not just having a girls’ night here. I mean, even with you, you know, still I know.
Michael Hyatt: And we need to talk a little bit about, and this is something I’ve been wanting to confront you on, we need to confront or we need to have more of a balanced approach.
To ask you the questions. Oh,
Megan Hyatt Miller: okay. Okay. Because I
Michael Hyatt: feel like I’m fighting you to get a question in Ed wise, and I I’m sure you probably feel the same. Listen,
Megan Hyatt Miller: I feel the same about you.
Michael Hyatt: Well, good. Okay.
Megan Hyatt Miller: That means we’re really interested in, we’re really interested in subject matter and you know, the thing that I love so much about Amy, I.
She’s just so darn vulnerable, you know? Oh, like she, she just is so open about the things that she struggles with, what she does well, but also, you know, what’s not that easy for her. Um, and I loved hearing her just talk openly about her marriage and some of the challenges that her entrepreneurial journey has presented there, and how she’s figured that out and how that has been instrumental in her double win.
Also about her, her non-negotiables. I, I
Michael Hyatt: knew that was gonna resonate with you because you had to come up with some Yes as well. But how did you respond to that?
Megan Hyatt Miller: Well, I think I just felt like, um, one, I’m in good company, but two, the thing I love about this conversation about non-negotiables is I. There. We all know, at least intuitively, there’s no way to get it all done or do it all.
Like that is not a thing. I was talking to somebody, um, yesterday, a podcast that I was on, and I was saying like, it’s not a thing that you’re gonna, we’re gonna give you some magic bullet that’s gonna show you how to do it all. That’s not the goal. The goal is to figure out what matters to you because there is enough time for the things that are the most important.
That’s right. And, but you’ve gotta be clear on what those non-negotiables are. And I feel like that’s the answer to is work-life balance and myth.
Michael Hyatt: It really reminds me of David Allen’s quotes. You can do anything you want. You just can’t do everything you
Megan Hyatt Miller: want. Right.
Michael Hyatt: So it’s about prioritization, it’s about choices.
And I know that my big turnaround 20 years ago in terms of work-life balance was, was basically having some non-negotiables. And it was really simple.
Megan Hyatt Miller: Yeah. I
Michael Hyatt: put some boundaries around my time,
Megan Hyatt Miller: right.
Michael Hyatt: And so I had to allow space to do all the other things that I wanted to do. Mm-Hmm. Outside of work. Yep.
But I had to clear the decks and make room for that. And that meant putting hard boundaries around work. And so Amy’s had to do that. She’s been. An amazing student. Yeah. In many ways she
Megan Hyatt Miller: is such a good student. I mean, whatever you tell her to do, she is gonna do it. To the max.
Michael Hyatt: Well, in terms of my private coaching clients, the thing I look for is I want somebody that’s coachable.
Megan Hyatt Miller: Yeah.
Michael Hyatt: And she is eminently coachable. Yeah. Which makes her a fantastic coach and a fantastic teacher. Right. She’s, she’s willing to tell you what she doesn’t know. Mm-Hmm. And she’s willing to lean into what she does know. Yeah. Which gives her, I think, exceptional rapport with her audience. Yeah. And I think there’s something we can all take away, uh, from the way that she runs her business and her life.
We could apply to the double win. Mm-Hmm. Because this has not always been easy for her. She and I are kind of the mere image of one another.
Megan Hyatt Miller: Yeah.
Michael Hyatt: Right. She’s an Enneagram three, she’s an achiever. She’s never satisfied. And that’s driven her to, you know,
Megan Hyatt Miller: overwork.
Michael Hyatt: Overwork. Yeah. And that certainly happened to me too.
Mm-Hmm. And she’s had to put into place some things to correct for that. Yeah. And she’s done a fabulous job.
Megan Hyatt Miller: I loved it.
Michael Hyatt: Well guys, I hope you enjoy this interview as much as we do. We’ll be back with another great one in just seven days. So see you then.